Weeks 22-23 - Roland-Garros, France - clay

Vandenburg · Futures level

Weeks 22-23 - Roland-Garros, France - clay

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

theemptyvessel wrote:
I can't follow the logic of he keeps winning against challenger level players so he is a challenger level player. Kyle won't get better blowing away players outside the top 100 with his forehand every week, he needs to be pushed to get better by playing against and sometimes getting exposed by top 20 players. The struggles and losses now are what should give him the tools to get better and force him to add to his game so he can compete toe to toe with the top guys. Other than the truly exceptional players everybody struggles to adjust with each step up the ladder they take, even wonderkid Sascha Zverev was demolished by Andy at the Austalian Open last year and I am sure he learned a whole lot from it.

I think you have to agree he has had a fortunate draw so far Olivo and Elias both Challenger players. Olivo had a freak result against Tsonga which has helped him massively. If Kyle is to prove he is a top 40 player (therefore ATP level) then we should see a 4th round or quarter final this week.

He has done reasonably well so far, I watched all of both his matches and the standard hasn't been any higher than challenger at the moment. I do often find Roland Garros to be like this in the early rounds more than any other Slam.

You can only beat what is in front of you so its job done so far. Maybe this could be his breakthrough tournament, let's hope so anyway.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I agree that Kyle has had a bit of luck in his two first round draws - they weren't the hardest. And, of course, he may possibly get thrashed in the next match.

But what I think people sometimes forget is that many/most of the other players who are ranked 10-40 will have had a serious bit of luck in some of their big counters, it's just the way things go.

On a British forum, as opposed to a French forum, people seem to be more black and white about how they view results/players. I've mentioned it before - it's quite noticeable - and I think it's because GB fans only have one or two guys in each category, so that player's matches/weaknesses/whatever are really put under the microscope.

On a French forum, a player who is ranked 45 in the world may play a lousy match, or have awful overheads, and people won't focus too much on it - everyone accepts that all the players play lousy matches, or have technical issues, and they'll remember when their players ranked 11, and 21 and 25 also had poor matches etc., and they came through it.
And they've got so many more players to focus on, that the lousy match doesn't seem so lousy anyway. I'm not saying they won't analyse it (there's sometimes very technical analysis on the forums) but there's more perspective about the path and the process, in my view, that comes with having so many more players, at all stages.

Nix · Futures level

Jaggy1876 wrote:
theemptyvessel wrote:
I can't follow the logic of he keeps winning against challenger level players so he is a challenger level player. Kyle won't get better blowing away players outside the top 100 with his forehand every week, he needs to be pushed to get better by playing against and sometimes getting exposed by top 20 players. The struggles and losses now are what should give him the tools to get better and force him to add to his game so he can compete toe to toe with the top guys. Other than the truly exceptional players everybody struggles to adjust with each step up the ladder they take, even wonderkid Sascha Zverev was demolished by Andy at the Austalian Open last year and I am sure he learned a whole lot from it.
I think you have to agree he has had a fortunate draw so far Olivo and Elias both Challenger players. Olivo had a freak result against Tsonga which has helped him massively. If Kyle is to prove he is a top 40 player (therefore ATP level) then we should see a 4th round or quarter final this week.
He has done reasonably well so far, I watched all of both his matches and the standard hasn't been any higher than challenger at the moment. I do often find Roland Garros to be like this in the early rounds more than any other Slam.
You can only beat what is in front of you so its job done so far. Maybe this could be his breakthrough tournament, let's hope so anyway.

If fourth round is what he needs to prove himself, he already did that in the US Open, beating Gasquet and Isner to get there, losing to Djokovic. He did pretty well in the Beijing 500 getting through qualies to the quarter finals, beating Bautista Agut and lsoing to Andy Murray. There aren't that many challenger level players that are regularly getting to fourth round/quartet finals at that level or tournament by definition.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

I wasn't being specific about the round Nix, going deep in a Slam quarter finals onwards, especially at Roland Garros which does tend to be the red herring of Slams at times for stranger results.

Good point Coup Droit made as well, French or Spanish players probably do get more slack as there are always 6-8 of them in the top 100 or thereabouts so yes we are more black and white about it. (Or grey in Bedenes case)

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Nadal in a real fight so far against Basilashvili

Nadal leads 6-0 5-0

indiana · Tennis legend

Since when was top 40 a definition of an ATP level player ??

Does seem far far too restrictive and I wonder as to the supposed status of the majority of players in your average ATP 250 tournanent. That majority are not top 40 anyway. We apparently have ATP level tournaments being routinely played with relatively few ATP level players.

But it is a definition though that rather conveniently ties in with some recent very strange ( to my mind ) doubts re Kyle and Aljaz's ATP statuses.

indiana · Tennis legend

Nadal 6-0 6-1 *5-0

Would be a bad one to lose from here !

the addict · Tennis legend

Oh dear, Rafa dropped a game in the second set .............

Spectator · All-time great

6-0 6-1 6-0. Don't see many scores like that in the 3rd round of a Grand Slam. Quite a statement of intent.

Commiserations to Basilashvili (that can't have been much fun). And commiserations, more seriously, to David Goffin, injured in his 3rd round match.

theemptyvessel · Club Coach

Got to feel for Goffin there. He is playing pretty well this year and RG is probably his best shot to go really deep at a slam.

JonH · All-time great

Djoko loses first set...

Spectator · All-time great

theemptyvessel wrote:
Got to feel for Goffin there. He is playing pretty well this year and RG is probably his best shot to go really deep at a slam.

And to add insult to - literally - injury, it's not just a fall. He slipped on a tarpaulin (the same colour as the clay) that lies at the back of the court. That was an accident waiting to happen ... Really sorry. But glad to hear that apparently there's no damage to ligaments or bones.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

JonH wrote:
Djoko loses first set...

Wins the 2nd but has now lost the 3rd as well.

Vamos Diego.

DF · Tennis legend

Djokovic given a warning because of his "attitude" by Carlos Ramos. Djokovic fuming but has taken the fourth set. Into the final set.