Week 21 - ATP 250 - Open Parc Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes, Lyon, France (clay)

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Week 21 - ATP 250 - Open Parc Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes, Lyon, France (clay)

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Kyle 'Challenger' Edmund

indiana · Tennis legend

Jaggy1876 wrote:
Kyle 'Challenger' Edmund

Hee hum, Kyle is ranked 50 in the world, he undoubtably hasn't had as good or more particularly consistent year as he would like to date, but I don't see that for now as either accurate or clever.

And right after a close loss to Gilles Simon hardly seems great timing either.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Fair enough Indiana probably not clever you are right, accurate however I'm afraid it is. This is a poor level ATP 250 the week before a Slam when most of the top 32 are giving maybe about 70per cent for fear of injury etc. There is little evidence at the moment of Kyle being able to go deep in ATP 250s, so therefore 'Challenger' is accurate.

indiana · Tennis legend

It's about as accurate as Aljaz isn't good enough for the ATP tour !!!

And whatever the general level of this ATP 250 ( I doubt it's close to the lowest ), it's strong enough that Kyle is unseeded as WR 50 and I repeat exited by losing to the 5th seed Gilles Simon WR 32 in three close sets.

He's had good performances, he's had not so good this year, but I am sorry the "challenger'" logic absolutely escapes me, mainly because it's not there.

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 24th of May 2017 05:39:54 PM

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Sorry Jaggy but I have to disagree. Sure, this hasn't been a stellar clay season for Kyle, but apart from a bad loss in Portugal, his defeats have been Nadal (in 3 sets) Thiem, Del Potro and Gilles Simon (where Kyle actually won more points). No real disgrace in any of those, even though I agree is would have been great for him to get a couple of "stand-out" wins.

As for Simon today, was he playing at just 70% ? I didn't see the match so I don't know, but as this is as close as it gets to a home tournament for Simon in front of a home crowd, I somehow doubt it. Far more likely that he would have been inspired but those who saw the match will know better than I.

As I have said before, we may need to be patient with Kyle. Not all players fly straight to the top. And as Kyle tries to add new facets to his game (as many on here have quite correctly said he needs to do) there may be a period of consolidation around this ranking level. I can live with that.

stevemcqueen · Futures qualifying

To suggest that Kedders is not at ATP standard is absurd. The rankings don't lie. Unless the rules have changed recently, Kyle's ranking precludes him entering Challenger event without special dispensation. So what level is he at if his ranking does not permit him to enter Challengers? Is AM now down to challenger level after a relatively poor clay season?

the addict · Tennis legend

If he was ranked at 50 or higher, he could only enter Challengers with a wild card. Top 10 players cannot enter under any circumstance. Rankings at 21 days before the Monday of the Challenger tournament.

And as Bob said, he has lost to some top players on clay this season, some off them very close matches, so he is certainly ATP standard

indiana · Tennis legend

Bob in Spain wrote:
Sorry Jaggy but I have to disagree. Sure, this hasn't been a stellar clay season for Kyle, but apart from a bad loss in Portugal, his defeats have been Nadal (in 3 sets) Thiem, Del Potro and Gilles Simon (where Kyle actually won more points). No real disgrace in any of those, even though I agree is would have been great for him to get a couple of "stand-out" wins.

As for Simon today, was he playing at just 70% ? I didn't see the match so I don't know, but as this is as close as it gets to a home tournament for Simon in front of a home crowd, I somehow doubt it. Far more likely that he would have been inspired but those who saw the match will know better than I.

As I have said before, we may need to be patient with Kyle. Not all players fly straight to the top. And as Kyle tries to add new facets to his game (as many on here have quite correctly said he needs to do) there may be a period of consolidation around this ranking level. I can live with that.

The liklihood that Simon was playing at 70% and Edmund at 100% ??

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Yes Indiana if you like it's a home GS for Simon after all. There have been plenty of players that get into the top 50 of challenger level. I would say top 32 is the barrier to break to prove you can compete at ATP level. Some might disagree, time will tell I suppose but I see Kyle as a clay court 75-100k specialist at the moment. And there is nothing wrong with that. Reasonable wage and the odd round or two at GS level. Lorenzi, Estrella Burgos etc. But 2nd week of Slams? No. Not yet anyway.

philwrig · Hall of fame

Did Kyle reach R16 in New York last year ?

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Think you know the answer. One swallow doesn't make a summer. Djokovic schooled him I believe, cantered through 7 games lost in 3 sets. He beat a half fit Gasquet, American Wild Card and Isner who even James Bog.. Ward defeated I believe.

The point based on evidence stands.

indiana · Tennis legend

Top 32 is the level to prove you are ATP level ???! No, these are simply the top ATP tour players. Plenty more are ATP tour players, not challenger players.

Draws be a bit bare if there are two or three ATP tour events one week, some players resting and all the lower ranked players just play challengers. Well, as said anyone ranked top 50 needs a special dispensation to even play challengers so someone, ie the ATP, reckons these players are ATP tour level. The 33 to 50 ranked players would be slightly left out !

This to me is all sooo lacking in much logic. Kyle is an ATP tour level, top 50 ranked players are, top 70 generally are, probably many would go further. Form may vary, but those 12 month rankings are the rankings of ATP tour level players. Not much more to say.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Jaggy, just wondering..... why did you predict Kyle to be WR 15 by the end of 2017 ?

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Coup Droit wrote:
Jaggy, just wondering..... why did you predict Kyle to be WR 15 by the end of 2017 ?

Seeing as you are post creeping did you read the following post? I was shooting towards the top end with most and this was also in the hope there would be progression beyond top challenger level play. And there hasnt been.

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