Next Gen ATP Finals

Vandenburg · Futures level

RE: Next Gen ATP Finals

Etienne · Club Coach

It's a full time job.

blob · All-time great

Jaffa wrote:
How is everyone finding this?
For me some have worked some havent: [...]

No lets - Yes - learn to serve.
Deuce - No - kills the serendipitous genius of the tennis scoring system, and the tension of ebb and flow that Deuce/Ad can bring.
Coaching - No - Just highlights how inane and meaningless 90% of coaching interactions are when you have only a few seconds to impart anything useful. The WTA already shows how this is basically only interesting when the coach or players reaction are awful, and I don't think tennis should be encouraging that sort of oblique rubber-necking.
Shot clock - Yes - Simple, easy to implement, unobtrusive, effective.
Shorter warm ups - Yes - Might take a while for crowds and audiences to fully acclimatise to the start procedures, and so on, but it will get there. Announce on court, enter, put down kit, undo tracksuit... and... play!
Hawk eye all lines - No - Insert long tedious technical rant about inaccuracy and inefficiency of Hawkeye, variation of trajectories affecting oblateness of ball imprints and so on. If we're going to have errors, I still prefer the human element.

Good to keep trying things though.

As for the other thing:

Spoiler

This goes in the spoiler to avoid clogging yet another thread.

Vandenburg wrote:
Etienne wrote:
Tournament draws with models having to take off clothing to reveal the players position - No No No.
What exactly is your problem, this is common place in Italy, is part of their culture [...].
When you go to other people's cultures, you need to respect their ways, [...]
In year a when we have a female Dr Who, and mps are resigning over touching a knee, i'm lost for words in what is political correctness gone mad.

Except, the Italian Tennis Federation (FIT) refused to take any responsibility for the ceremony, saying that the ATP and Red Bull (the corporate sponsor) organised and approved it without the FIT having any say or jurisdiction over the matter ( http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2017/11/atp-draw-ceremony-featuring-female-models-criticized/70333/ etc.); a version of events with which neither the ATP, or Red Bull disagree.

So, it wasn't part of Italian culture, it was the ATP and Red Bull. Are they Italian?
The ATP is a global organisation run from the UK, with a British CEO (Chris Kermode). Red Bull is an Austrian company selling a product originating from a Thai recipe to a global audience.
Nary an Italian amongst them, and they avowedly did not consult the locals in producing their draw ceremony.
It may be 'part of their culture', I'll of course bow to a self-proclaimed expert on Nordic tennis on that issue, as, apparently that qualification also somehow encompasses Italy.

Intrigued to understand how a made-up character from a made-up planet, in an alternative universe, that travels time, regenerates themselves in a never-proscribed manner, and is, literally, available to every possibility in that universe that can be written, being cast for the first time in 50 years, as a woman, is somehow not only 'politically correct', but, 'political correctness gone mad'.

Also, no MP resigned (in the latest round, yet) over touching a knee.
I presume you mean Michael Fallon. The knee allegation, reported by The Sun, last Tuesday, initally drew attention to his conduct and threw it in to question. That then brought a whole slew of further allegations of increasing degree of concern, and Fallon, presented with such a list agreed that his longstanding conduct was undefendable, and stood down before the PM was forced to make a decision on any censure.
Just for you, here's a source you'll love that outlines the real timeline, as opposed to your worthless reduction of it: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/04/michael-fallon-defence-secretary-sexual-harassment

And... the pivot is coming in 3, 2, 1...

paulisi · Tennis legend

Hawk eye YES YES

It actual works better than I expected. I expected it to be delayed, but seems to be in real time and the players don't have a problem with this. I'd love to see this rolled out.

Spectator · All-time great

I'm intrigued by the comments re: the tennis - sounds as if there are some interesting (if contested) opinions about the different innovations. But like Etienne, I found the initial reports and photos of the draw ceremony so offensive that I'm giving the whole a miss - not that they'll notice one person not watching, but it's my way of taking a stance. For the record, I think that in addition to the issues around portrayal of women and the sexualising of a draw ceremony (?!?), it was deeply unfair to the players: who puts people into a position where it's mandatory for them to undertake that kind of activity in order to get a draw? Some may have been 'comfortable with it' (which is another topic ...) But from what I have seen, for example, of Hyeon Chung, I can't imagine it wasn't an awkward moment for him.

And I do not buy the 'it's Italy' argument. To the best of my knowledge, the Rome Masters has survived for years without resorting to such tactics.

Anyway, echoing the consensus, I hope they continue the ideas of shot clocks ... and don't try to extend the no-ad travesty.

indiana · Tennis legend

I have yet to hear anyone that thinks no Ad is a good idea. So much can be encapsulated in the often really interesting to and fro of a deuce / ad / deuce contest within a contest and particularly at very important stages of matches. Having got such a great part of the scoring system please don't tamper for singles ( not that I'm keen about it for doubles either ).

I'd echo the possible concern re additional injuries re reduced warm-ups if all else stayed the same. I guess the onus would be even more on the players to have properly stretched etc before taking to the court. But a few minutes saved in warm ups is certainly not something that I'm at all bothered about.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Spectator wrote:
I'm intrigued by the comments re: the tennis - sounds as if there are some interesting (if contested) opinions about the different innovations. But like Etienne, I found the initial reports and photos of the draw ceremony so offensive that I'm giving the whole a miss - not that they'll notice one person not watching, but it's my way of taking a stance. For the record, I think that in addition to the issues around portrayal of women and the sexualising of a draw ceremony (?!?), it was deeply unfair to the players: who puts people into a position where it's mandatory for them to undertake that kind of activity in order to get a draw? Some may have been 'comfortable with it' (which is another topic ...) But from what I have seen, for example, of Hyeon Chung, I can't imagine it wasn't an awkward moment for him.

And I do not buy the 'it's Italy' argument. To the best of my knowledge, the Rome Masters has survived for years without resorting to such tactics.

Anyway, echoing the consensus, I hope they continue the ideas of shot clocks ... and don't try to extend the no-ad travesty.

Completely agree. I mean, how tacky/offensive do you have to get? (And I'm not a prude but the fact that this is for the under-21s somehow makes it even worse). So betting is forbidden? And recreational drugs are forbidden? But hiding numbers on girls bodies and getting the boys to 'find' them, in public, and watched by millions, is OK?????

I remember when the Madrid Masters had female models as ballgirls. And they could barely throw the ball. Or run. (I'm sure there are some models who are perfectly sporty and could manage the basics fine but they certainly hadn't chosen those ones there). And Andre Agassi looked extremely 'unamused'. I thought we'd seen the back of that sort of thing then.

wolf · Tennis legend

Warm ups give crowds a chance to rest, nip to the bathroom, get refreshments. Don't see the point of getting rid of them.

the addict · Tennis legend

Well well. It seems that some of thesse ideas are catching on.
Article in today's times

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/tennis-to-vote-on-new-rules-hsgcp66pk

Amongst other things ....

"A shot clock, in-match coaching and a reduction in the number of seeds from 32 to 16 are among reforms to be discussed by the Wimbledon Championships and the other three grand-slam tournaments in London next week."

indiana · Tennis legend

I read much distancing where they think they can and apologies re the unbelievable draw ceremony. Seems there certainly was an initial vague Milan fashion idea but it got very twisted as it was proceeded with and some folk very much took took their eye off the ball, ultimately that being the ATP however much it was a Red Bull presentation.

The AELTC have noted events but don't plan to go down a similar route with the Wimbledon draw !

Strongbow · All-time great

the addict wrote:
Well well. It seems that some of thesse ideas are catching on.
Article in today's times

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/tennis-to-vote-on-new-rules-hsgcp66pk

Amongst other things ....

"A shot clock, in-match coaching and a reduction in the number of seeds from 32 to 16 are among reforms to be discussed by the Wimbledon Championships and the other three grand-slam tournaments in London next week."

Please don't quote articles from "The Times" as it is "subscription only" and I would hate to give money to Murdoch - quote the "Guardian" as I've got a good Spelll-checker wink

Spectator · All-time great

Congratulations to Hyeon Chung for winning the event. He's been one of my favourite players since his run at junior Wimbledon years ago. Coming from the smallest tennis market, he gets the least attention of the next-Gens ... so nice to see him getting attention with his play.

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

So the Rankings were

1. Stefanos Tsitsipas OUT
2. Alex De Minaur IN
3. Felix Auger-Aliassime OUT
4. Denis Shapovalov OUT
5. Frances Tiafoe IN
6. Ugo Humbert IN
7. Casper Ruud IN
8. Miomir Kecmanovic IN
9. Mikael Ymer IN
10. Alejandro Fokina IN
11. Jannik Sinner IN

Tsitsipas is obviously at the ATP World Finals, but I'm not sure why Felix and Denis have pulled out.

Jay Clarke at no.16 wasn't actually that far away in positional terms, however Sinner had 596 points compared to Jay's 265, so more than double the points.

Jack Draper was at no.40 with 111 points.

Aiden McHugh was at no.98 with 40 points.

flamingowings · All-time great

Felix has a small injury
Denis has fatigue (RU in Paris, also played doubles)

- both down to play the upcoming DC tie and have already "done" this tournament.

the addict · Tennis legend

Yes, I thought that they were probably saving themselves for the DC.