Week 20 - Challenger ($150,000+H) - Busan, South Korea (hard)

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

RE: Week 20 - Challenger ($150,000+H) - Busan, South Korea (hard)

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Well go to MTF!! Plenty of BS of all kinds there! Sure some of our players are stagnating, some are no-hopers and some are real exciting but I love this board because it supports and celebrates every achievement, however small, lowly or irregular. The civil and positive nature of this board makes, I am sure, not a blind bit of difference to the players one way or the other. Certainly doesn't encourage them to keep going or give up, there are bigger reasons for them to consider there. If they want to make a living bobbling along in the understoreys, so to speak, I'm happy to offer them my support. The whole point of a forum, largely populated by people outside the player camps, is that we conjecture, discuss, chew the fat, wonder what might have happened, put forward ideas as to what prompted a loss or a win. You might not agree with the theories (I certainly don't in lots of instances) but I don't think it adds anything to describe another poster's ideas as BS. Yes, it was a surprising loss from Jay. It may have been tension from stepping up to a bigger level of tournament, he may have been feeling ill, it may have been windy, he may have played rubbish, his opponent may have played out of his skin. It may have been a poor loss, but without having seen the match I think it wrong to describe it as disgraceful and one he 'should have won in his sleep'.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I did read them, Mark.

I was 'clarifying' the point about referring to male tennis, as it says in my post (if you read it).

And you were endorsing Jeff's comments (as per the exact words in your post), which were directed to Jay.

Jeff's post: "Some deeply disturbing comments on Jay's loss".

Your post: "Have to agree with Jeff on this one"

HENCE, I was disagreeing about the Jay example.

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

The Optimist wrote:
Well go to MTF!! Plenty of BS of all kinds there! Sure some of our players are stagnating, some are no-hopers and some are real exciting but I love this board because it supports and celebrates every achievement, however small, lowly or irregular. The civil and positive nature of this board makes, I am sure, not a blind bit of difference to the players one way or the other. Certainly doesn't encourage them to keep going or give up, there are bigger reasons for them to consider there. If they want to make a living bobbling along in the understoreys, so to speak, I'm happy to offer them my support. The whole point of a forum, largely populated by people outside the player camps, is that we conjecture, discuss, chew the fat, wonder what might have happened, put forward ideas as to what prompted a loss or a win. You might not agree with the theories (I certainly don't in lots of instances) but I don't think it adds anything to describe another poster's ideas as BS. Yes, it was a surprising loss from Jay. It may have been tension from stepping up to a bigger level of tournament, he may have been feeling ill, it may have been windy, he may have played rubbish, his opponent may have played out of his skin. It may have been a poor loss, but without having seen the match I think it wrong to describe it as disgraceful and one he 'should have won in his sleep'.

Another one who doesn't quite get it. By the way, most our lower ranked players do not make a living, they play at a loss.

While you are here please tell me about these 'exciting players' I really need to know who they are.

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

Coup Droit wrote:
I did read them, Mark.

I was 'clarifying' the point about referring to male tennis, as it says in my post (if you read it).

And you were endorsing Jeff's comments (as per the exact words in your post), which were directed to Jay.

Jeff's post: "Some deeply disturbing comments on Jay's loss".

Your post: "Have to agree with Jeff on this one"

HENCE, I was disagreeing about the Jay example.

Having to agree with Jeff, who has made similar comments about other players poor losses before was just a way to start my comment really. You are nitpicking and don't seem to understand the main jist of my post.

-- Edited by Mark1968 on Tuesday 16th of May 2017 10:50:08 AM

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Round-up:

L32: Hiroki Moriya WR 189 defeated (Q) Ed Corrie WR 333 by 4 & 4

L32: Brydan Klein WR 213 defeated Marko Tepavac (SRB) WR 369 by 3 & 0

L32: (Q) Liam Broady WR 412 defeated (PR) Alex Ward WR 518 by 2 & 0

*****

L16: (Q) Austin Krajicek (USA) WR 291 (CH = 94 in October 2015) vs Brydan Klein WR 213 hmm

Krajicke beat Bemelmans (8) by 3 & 3 in the first round.

L16: (Q) Liam Broady WR 412 vs (2) Vasek Pospisil (CAN) WR 106 (CH = 25 in January 2014) bleh furious

Jeff Stelling · Club Coach

The Optimist wrote:
Yes, it was a surprising loss from Jay. It may have been tension from stepping up to a bigger level of tournament, he may have been feeling ill, it may have been windy, he may have played rubbish, his opponent may have played out of his skin. It may have been a poor loss, but without having seen the match I think it wrong to describe it as disgraceful and one he 'should have won in his sleep'.

I take your point, but that point could equally be directed the other way. How the great and good of this forum decided without any evidence that a on-the-face-of-it godawful loss to someone more suited to the cranberry sauce tournaments was due to "acclimatising to the step-up" has left me severely shaken. This was then backed up by droves of others claiming this match was akin to the final of a futures.

Completely agree that he *could* have been carrying a small injury or similar, it's just when the default position to any loss is to grossly inflate the perceived abilities of the opponent that it causes all manner of balanced individuals to reach for the smelling salts.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Mark1968 wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
I did read them, Mark.

I was 'clarifying' the point about referring to male tennis, as it says in my post (if you read it).

And you were endorsing Jeff's comments (as per the exact words in your post), which were directed to Jay.

Jeff's post: "Some deeply disturbing comments on Jay's loss".

Your post: "Have to agree with Jeff on this one"

HENCE, I was disagreeing about the Jay example.
Having to agree with Jeff, who has made similar comments about other players poor losses before was just a way to start my comment really. You are nitpicking and don't seem to understand the main jist of my post.

-- Edited by Mark1968 on Tuesday 16th of May 2017 10:50:08 AM

Obviously not. Sorry. My fault. smile

Maybe next time when you rush off into capitals and say 'READ' your post first you could make it clear that you don't mean read what you've actually written, which I clearly did, but read what you mean between the lines, which is a bit trickier.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Mark1968 wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
Well go to MTF!! Plenty of BS of all kinds there! Sure some of our players are stagnating, some are no-hopers and some are real exciting but I love this board because it supports and celebrates every achievement, however small, lowly or irregular. The civil and positive nature of this board makes, I am sure, not a blind bit of difference to the players one way or the other. Certainly doesn't encourage them to keep going or give up, there are bigger reasons for them to consider there. If they want to make a living bobbling along in the understoreys, so to speak, I'm happy to offer them my support. The whole point of a forum, largely populated by people outside the player camps, is that we conjecture, discuss, chew the fat, wonder what might have happened, put forward ideas as to what prompted a loss or a win. You might not agree with the theories (I certainly don't in lots of instances) but I don't think it adds anything to describe another poster's ideas as BS. Yes, it was a surprising loss from Jay. It may have been tension from stepping up to a bigger level of tournament, he may have been feeling ill, it may have been windy, he may have played rubbish, his opponent may have played out of his skin. It may have been a poor loss, but without having seen the match I think it wrong to describe it as disgraceful and one he 'should have won in his sleep'.
Another one who doesn't quite get it. By the way, most our lower ranked players do not make a living, they play at a loss.
While you are here please tell me about these 'exciting players' I really need to know who they are.

Well on the male side, the players I find exciting to watch and follow are Andy Murray, Dan Evans, Kyle Edmunds, Jay Clarke, Cameron Norrie, Ryan Storrie, Joel Cannell and Alastair Gray. For the females, Jo Konta, Heather Watson, Katie Boulter, Freya Christie, Fran Jones and Emma Raducanu. OK, some are established, some are juniors and some at college , but that's my personal list. Not expecting you to like or be excited by all or any of them. Personal choice.

And what don't I get?

- that a forum member shouldn't put forward an idea for discussion when a surprising loss happened?

- that we should not attempt to explore the context of a win or loss even when we haven't seen the match?

- that we should castigate every British player who loses to an opponent of lower rank regardless.

- that only Brits in the top 100 should be mentioned?

- that those playing under the British flag who are never going to be world-beaters should not be supported on the forum?

- that those of 23+ who do not make a living from the tour and who currently receive no official support should somehow be punished for still choosing to spend their time and money pursuing the sport?

And obviously not intentional but your reference to the Stelling post, which was entirely about Jay, made your own post read as though Jay was included in your criticisms.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Jeff Stelling wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
Yes, it was a surprising loss from Jay. It may have been tension from stepping up to a bigger level of tournament, he may have been feeling ill, it may have been windy, he may have played rubbish, his opponent may have played out of his skin. It may have been a poor loss, but without having seen the match I think it wrong to describe it as disgraceful and one he 'should have won in his sleep'.

I take your point, but that point could equally be directed the other way. How the great and good of this forum decided without any evidence that a on-the-face-of-it godawful loss to someone more suited to the cranberry sauce tournaments was due to "acclimatising to the step-up" has left me severely shaken. This was then backed up by droves of others claiming this match was akin to the final of a futures.

Completely agree that he *could* have been carrying a small injury or similar, it's just when the default position to any loss is to grossly inflate the perceived abilities of the opponent that it causes all manner of balanced individuals to reach for the smelling salts.

I didn't take exception to your post at all! It put forward, in your own unique style, a counterpoint to the suggestions that the loss was a reaction to trying his hand in a higher grade tournament. And I agree the default position on here can be a bit Pollyanna and rose-tinted but what I took issue with was the later poster describing his loss as disgraceful and a match he should have won blindfolded simply on rankings and scoreline without any knowledge of any context. It just came over as slagging the player off and there are other forums more suited to that.

theemptyvessel · Club Coach

Jeff Stelling wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
Yes, it was a surprising loss from Jay. It may have been tension from stepping up to a bigger level of tournament, he may have been feeling ill, it may have been windy, he may have played rubbish, his opponent may have played out of his skin. It may have been a poor loss, but without having seen the match I think it wrong to describe it as disgraceful and one he 'should have won in his sleep'.

I take your point, but that point could equally be directed the other way. How the great and good of this forum decided without any evidence that a on-the-face-of-it godawful loss to someone more suited to the cranberry sauce tournaments was due to "acclimatising to the step-up" has left me severely shaken. This was then backed up by droves of others claiming this match was akin to the final of a futures.

Completely agree that he *could* have been carrying a small injury or similar, it's just when the default position to any loss is to grossly inflate the perceived abilities of the opponent that it causes all manner of balanced individuals to reach for the smelling salts.

Still the funniest part of this whole thread. If comments on a tennis forum can leave you severely shaken I suggest never watching the news or stepping outside of your door, I dread to think what that would do to you.

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

The Optimist wrote:
Mark1968 wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
Well go to MTF!! Plenty of BS of all kinds there! Sure some of our players are stagnating, some are no-hopers and some are real exciting but I love this board because it supports and celebrates every achievement, however small, lowly or irregular. The civil and positive nature of this board makes, I am sure, not a blind bit of difference to the players one way or the other. Certainly doesn't encourage them to keep going or give up, there are bigger reasons for them to consider there. If they want to make a living bobbling along in the understoreys, so to speak, I'm happy to offer them my support. The whole point of a forum, largely populated by people outside the player camps, is that we conjecture, discuss, chew the fat, wonder what might have happened, put forward ideas as to what prompted a loss or a win. You might not agree with the theories (I certainly don't in lots of instances) but I don't think it adds anything to describe another poster's ideas as BS. Yes, it was a surprising loss from Jay. It may have been tension from stepping up to a bigger level of tournament, he may have been feeling ill, it may have been windy, he may have played rubbish, his opponent may have played out of his skin. It may have been a poor loss, but without having seen the match I think it wrong to describe it as disgraceful and one he 'should have won in his sleep'.
Another one who doesn't quite get it. By the way, most our lower ranked players do not make a living, they play at a loss.
While you are here please tell me about these 'exciting players' I really need to know who they are.
Well on the male side, the players I find exciting to watch and follow are Andy Murray, Dan Evans, Kyle Edmunds, Jay Clarke, Cameron Norrie, Ryan Storrie, Joel Cannell and Alastair Gray. For the females, Jo Konta, Heather Watson, Katie Boulter, Freya Christie, Fran Jones and Emma Raducanu. OK, some are established, some are juniors and some at college , but that's my personal list. Not expecting you to like or be excited by all or any of them. Personal choice.
And what don't I get?
- that a forum member shouldn't put forward an idea for discussion when a surprising loss happened?
- that we should not attempt to explore the context of a win or loss even when we haven't seen the match?
- that we should castigate every British player who loses to an opponent of lower rank regardless.
- that only Brits in the top 100 should be mentioned?
- that those playing under the British flag who are never going to be world-beaters should not be supported on the forum?
- that those of 23+ who do not make a living from the tour and who currently receive no official support should somehow be punished for still choosing to spend their time and money pursuing the sport?
And obviously not intentional but your reference to the Stelling post, which was entirely about Jay, made your own post read as though Jay was included in your criticisms.

As you should be aware this discussion is nothing to do with the female players ( different place for this if you didn't know), nor has it anything to do with our top ranked players Murray, Evo and Kyle and probably not even Norrie really who has done well for a part timer.

Jay we've covered, Storrie (good tournament last week) looked solid enough when I last saw him, Cannell was outclassed by Jonny Gray but that was only one match and I won't comment on Ali G because I haven't seen him play yet.

I too have been getting excited about Jay, but as for the others, we'll have to wait and see.

Thanks for the names, at least I know who to look out for smile

JonH · All-time great

Disappointing loss for brydan to krajicek. Personally hoped for a little more today and probably over whole Korean circuit he hasn't quite made the jump I'd hoped he might. Not sure of point of playing rg qualies, perhaps would be better off getting ready for grass now

DF · Tennis legend

Brydan lost 4-6 2-6 to Krajicek

Samson · Lower Club Player

Considering he qualified for the ATP in Auckland at the start of the year I did assume Brydon would accelerate up the rankings. He really doesn't seem, bar Yokohama this year at least, to string results together at Challenger level. I'd still expect him to play RG qualifying though, decent pay for it.