UK GENERAL ELECTION 2017

Etienne · Club Coach

UK GENERAL ELECTION 2017

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

vohor wrote:
We import more from the EU than we export to it; if the EU want us to utilise our trade deficit elsewhere it will be their loss and hence foolish of them. They may not be quaking in their boots but they would be shooting themselves in the foot! Lots of posturing on both sides so far; the point is Cameron got his posturing all wrong and came away with nothing worthy of the name.

This is misleading.

We import more from the EU than we export, yes. As an absolute figure. And just on goods. (Depends a bit how you value services).

But as a percentage, just under half of our exports go to the EU

Whereas about 8-15% of other EU's countries' exports go to the UK

And exports to the EU are worth about 13% of our economy.

Whereas exports from the EU to the UK are worth about 4% of its economy.

The EU's hand is far stronger. We will not get a good deal to leave. Maybe we will find other markets and other benefits. I doubt it, but maybe. Let's hope.

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes, very misleading ( get a place in politics among the many who mislead / don't understand the figures ), it is all to do with us being one individual country against the EU mass. Don't look at the total figures in and out, look at the % effect. The base amounts clearly effect one hugely more, us !!

For each individual EU country ( who still will continue to freely trade with all the other EU countrues ) it is massively less significant compared to the significance to the UK losing out on that huge market perentagewise for it.

blob · All-time great

Well if the EU won't play ball, we always have the option to secure bumper new trade treaties with the rest of the world.
That nice Mr. Trump, for example. We've all seen how fair and reasonable his negotiating strategy is towards his long term friends, allies and prospective partners. I'm sure we'll get a great deal.

BeefyDeedz · Pro player

vohor wrote:
Well I'm hoping this year's vote sees the tide of history continue its recent run in favour of my preferences....2010 saw us saved from the brink of national bankruptcy; 2014 from the nation being broken up; 2015 from the dead hand of Coalition government; 2016 from the tyranny of unelected Eurocrats.

If 2017 sees an increased Tory majority, the Brexit negotiations can be effected against a backdrop of not needing to satisfy any particular small pressure group of disaffected Tories (Ken Clarke, Anna Soubrey, etc) and ideally too if Nicola Sturgeon loses some seats in Scotland maybe she'll give Indyref2 a rest for a while to concentrate instead on using her devolved powers to better effect.

Sorry, Etienne, but no deal is assuredly better than a bad deal as David Cameron found to his cost. If the EU had offered Cameron anything worthwhile Brexit would not be occurring; more fool the EU if they have not learnt the lesson from that and want to push us away to trade exclusively with the rest of the world.

I would love to know how the 2010 Coalition saved us from the 'brink of national bankruptcy'?

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

BeefyDeedz wrote:
vohor wrote:
Well I'm hoping this year's vote sees the tide of history continue its recent run in favour of my preferences....2010 saw us saved from the brink of national bankruptcy; 2014 from the nation being broken up; 2015 from the dead hand of Coalition government; 2016 from the tyranny of unelected Eurocrats.

If 2017 sees an increased Tory majority, the Brexit negotiations can be effected against a backdrop of not needing to satisfy any particular small pressure group of disaffected Tories (Ken Clarke, Anna Soubrey, etc) and ideally too if Nicola Sturgeon loses some seats in Scotland maybe she'll give Indyref2 a rest for a while to concentrate instead on using her devolved powers to better effect.

Sorry, Etienne, but no deal is assuredly better than a bad deal as David Cameron found to his cost. If the EU had offered Cameron anything worthwhile Brexit would not be occurring; more fool the EU if they have not learnt the lesson from that and want to push us away to trade exclusively with the rest of the world.
I would love to know how the 2010 Coalition saved us from the 'brink of national bankruptcy'?

Liam Byrne, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, leaving a farewell note saying that there was no money left?!

If Gordon Brown had been returned as PM it would have been like Denis Healey cap in hand to the IMF all over again

BeefyDeedz · Pro player

vohor wrote:
BeefyDeedz wrote:
vohor wrote:
Well I'm hoping this year's vote sees the tide of history continue its recent run in favour of my preferences....2010 saw us saved from the brink of national bankruptcy; 2014 from the nation being broken up; 2015 from the dead hand of Coalition government; 2016 from the tyranny of unelected Eurocrats.

If 2017 sees an increased Tory majority, the Brexit negotiations can be effected against a backdrop of not needing to satisfy any particular small pressure group of disaffected Tories (Ken Clarke, Anna Soubrey, etc) and ideally too if Nicola Sturgeon loses some seats in Scotland maybe she'll give Indyref2 a rest for a while to concentrate instead on using her devolved powers to better effect.

Sorry, Etienne, but no deal is assuredly better than a bad deal as David Cameron found to his cost. If the EU had offered Cameron anything worthwhile Brexit would not be occurring; more fool the EU if they have not learnt the lesson from that and want to push us away to trade exclusively with the rest of the world.
I would love to know how the 2010 Coalition saved us from the 'brink of national bankruptcy'?
Liam Byrne, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, leaving a farewell note saying that there was no money left?!
If Gordon Brown had been returned as PM it would have been like Denis Healey cap in hand to the IMF all over again

That offers absolutely nothing to the idea of us being on the bring of national bankruptcy, a common misnomer. It's basically an anecdote!

indiana · Tennis legend

Not saying Labour exactly handled the finances well ( and I'm not in a hurry to see them get another chance ) and yes Byrne did leave that note, but "brink of national bankruptcy" is a huge exaggeration.

It was a bit of a joke and the po-faced incomer revealed it while trying to make political capital out of it.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

It's convenient for the Tories to say that though Indiana. Gives them an excuse for austerity and scaremongering about the economy.

I would have to say that this is probably the most negative and apathetic general elections for 30 years anyway. The Tories campaign in Scotland is based solely on the independance issue. A lot of the seats they think they will won based on this tosh. Scottish Labour not much better in that regard either. I still haven't decided who to vote for, it's very depressing. I know people who work for disabled charities who are actually crying over some of their clients at the moment as well. I don't know whether I'm filled with sadness or anger.

Might draw some genitals on the ballot paper thinking.

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

I know I'm wasting my breath but here goes....

In 1979 after 15 years of Labour government/Trades Union militancy (apart from the Heath premiership during which he tried but failed to rein in the Union militancy) the country had run out of road economically and was the "Sick Man of Europe" needing IMF bail out money; after the Winter of Discontent during which rubbish was mounding up in the streets and the dead were unburied Labour was kicked out by the electorate for the next 18 years. The electorate, as it does, had forgotten the lessons of 1978/9 by 1997. So, by 2010 after 13 years of Labour government (during which Gordon Brown deluded himself, and mismanaged the country's finances accordingly, that he had brought an end to "Boom and Bust" so that when the Bust came the country's finances could not withstand it) the country was once again about to run out of road economically. The inability of Gordon Brown to countenance that he had been wrong and therefore had no plan to take required corrective measures meant that if Labour had won in 2010 the cost of borrowing to cover the country's borrowing requirement would have gone through the roof. We would have been the next Greece.

"Austerity" was not overall cuts; it simply trimmed the rate of increase in borrowing. As Corbyn himself has said, the last 7 years has seen more borrowing than ever before (which he was meaning was a Bad Thing because it was the Tories wot were doing the borrowing and therefore could not be trusted with the economy; in the next breath he's wanting to splurge another £50b of extra borrowing every year for the next 5 years!).

The electorate made the right call in 2010; I fear for the country's economic well-being if the electorate reverts to a Labour government this time. The last 7 years has been an amazing success story in terms of the numbers of people in work and the lowering percentage of people out of work. I don't regard that as a negative thing Jaggy!

Vandenburg · Futures level

Time for my say on this.

I'm in a unique position, having mother was British, but my father Norwegian and I grew up in Norway and also lived in the Netherlands for a few years, I also lived close to the sweidsh border, so also have a good grasp on that nations culture.

Those 3 nations, are all socialist nations and generally nicer places to live when compared to the UK. In those nations, everybody is middle class, and in general it creates and nicer atmosphere. Socialism can work.

HOWEVER, SOCIALISM CANNOT WORK IN THE UK.

In the UK, greed is endemic. British culture, is obsessed with the haves and have nots. This filters down to several aspects of society.

Example 1- Car leasing is so popular in the UK. You must be able to have a brand new audi or bmw, just so you can show it off, rather than actually buying an old car that you own, not leased. Car leasing is UK thing, unknown to europeans and serves as a metaphor for the uk.

Example 2- Brands like Lacoste and Burberry. These are both luxary brands, but are actually associated with working classes, because they are a status symbol, something you can instantly show, which means you have money. Again highlights the have and have nots culture of the uk.

Example 3- British gym culture. Yes norwegians are into fitness, so we go running as cardiovascular is all that really matters. British gym cultures is not about fitness is about having a six pack body, again linked the the awful shallow materialistic culture of the uk.

This then filters through to tax. In Norway the more you earn, the more you pay, not because the gov tells you too, but also you feel happy too, where as in the UK, there is this, this is my money, I want to take it all attitude, similar to having to have the new audi syndrome I call it.

The UK is sick sick sick sick, and anyone that has spent time living abroad knows this.

-- Edited by Vandenburg on Thursday 8th of June 2017 03:52:40 PM

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

I have to say that the cultural differences between Spain and the UK are very similar to those described by Vandenburg. I'll give two examples. From my days living in the UK many years ago, if the kids at school didn't have Nike or Adidas etc, they were looked down upon. In Spain, it is those who wear Nike and Adidas etc that are ridiculed. Other kids will simply say, "Why did you parents waste all that money on your T shirt, mine only cost 5 euros". With the youngsters, it is almost materialism in reverse.

The other aspect of Spain that I really like, is the behaviour of the youths (which I deem to be 16-25). Just like the UK, you will often see a group of them hanging around on street corners drinking. The difference is, they are drinking coke and Fanta. There is no philosophy whatsoever that you have to get totally blotto to have a good time.

Brexit permitting, I will never move back to the UK.

Etienne · Club Coach

Well, this looks like the second most ill advised vote called by a Tory PM in the last 3 years.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Just watching CNN, which is the only English speaking news channel I have here, and the exit polls are suggesting a hung parliament.

indiana · Tennis legend

EXIT POLL ( of 30,415 voters )

Conservatives 314 ( - 17 )
Labour 266 ( + 34 )
SNP 34 ( - 22 )
Lib Dems 14 ( + 6 )
Others 22 ( - 1 )

Short of the 326 required for an overall majority.

Might still make it, but if it is pretty close to the exit poll, oops Theresa ! Pretty awful Tory campaign.