UK GENERAL ELECTION 2017

BeefyDeedz · Pro player

UK GENERAL ELECTION 2017

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Sitting on the hard right of the Labour Party, I distrust the unions, I am in favour of a nuclear deterant and selective education but pro Europe and the social sensibility that goes with responsible taxation and that includes indirect means like tuition fees for higher education, based on means; I have never been more disaffected by the labour leadership but more determined to vote labour.

My local MP is excellent and I would like to see him elected.

steven · Tennis legend

Etienne wrote:
They aren't my party, but it's mostly things that we were able to afford in the past.

Things have changed though, mostly for the better, but they bring their own challenges. The two most obvious examples are:

- life expectancy keeps increasing (a good thing) so the fact that the country could afford decent(ish) state pensions at 65/60 in the past doesn't mean it can still afford them now without a massive increase in costs and/or big cuts in other areas (you could say that's already happening given the ludicrous triple lock, which politicians only get away with supporting because the old vote in bigger numbers than the young)

- all the breakthroughs in healthcare in the last few decades (a good thing) means that meeting people's expectations of the NHS is hugely more expensive than it would have been in the past, and people who would have died in the past are surviving longer (also a very good thing) and needing more ongoing treatment too

So the "we were able to afford them before" argument just doesn't hold up (and the related Brexit argument that things were better in the 1950s doesn't hold up either unless they also want people to die earlier, etc)

We desperately need politicians from all parties to be realistic and honest about things like this (instead of pretending that the challenges haven't changed) and work together to come up with the best possible sustainable outcomes going forward instead of using issues like the NHS as a political football.

Etienne · Club Coach

While both of these are fair points, I think they can be overstated.

Even under the Tories historically sclerotic growth (lower even than in the 70s) we still continue to grow GDP by at least 1% a year. We are richer than we've ever been.

Life expectancy is growing, but not very fast - it's more the age pyramid that is changing with birth rates having dropped so there are less working age people to support them - and that does make pensions more expensive. I agree that the triple lock is populist nonsense. But the health improvements also mean that people are able to work longer, particularly with less manual work around.

Some healthcare breakthroughs are expensive, but many others save us money - and many procedures/treatments that were very expensive that are now not. The main extra pressure that is coming on the NHS now is from austerity, cuts to social care, disability, mental health, increases in homelessness and food poverty, all send extra patients to the NHS.

Health care is very expensive, and is likely to become more so, but we still pay less as a percentage of GDP than almost all other rich countries.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Have to be honest, I am getting fed up with the election news and in particular the slogans which are being drummed into people's heads.

So later this week I am going to escape all this by heading back to Brazil on (hopefully) a Strong and Stable aeroplane. As I am flying TAP, there is no doubt that the pilot and flight attendants will form their usual Coalition of Chaos and due to lack of funds (and airmiles) on my behalf, there will be no business class and so I am going to have to sit in the area designated For the Many and Not the Few.

Ho Hum. Perhaps when I get there, I can find a Deep and Special Partnership in Brazil.

Etienne · Club Coach

Has anyone changed their mind over the course of the campaign? It seems like there has been a substantial change in the popular mood, which I don't remember ever seeing in a General Election campaign before. Almost certainly not enough to change the winner, but it's not been as dull as Bob found it back in mid-May (and I felt much the same then).

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

The old school right wing will never change regardless of what happens. These people are typically over 50, stay quiet and won't be found on social media. If you look on social media it's a clear majority in favour of Labour. Mainly because people generally won't admit to being Tory. The media and establishment will protect the Tories as much as they can however as we've seen. A lot of people I know are told this in their workplaces in the media, heard of two examples.

I would vote for Labour if I was English but not Scottish Labour. It's almost a different party entirely. Which in itself tells you the direction Scotland should take. We really need our 18-24yr olds to get out their and vote. That's what I hope is changing. Sadly it's coming too late and we are going to end up with the most unpopular Prime Minister since Mar**ret Th***er.

Helen40 · Grand Slam Champion

It has been a more interesting campaign of late, but for me since May took over the conservatives have been pretty vanilla. The thing is article 50 is triggered whether we like it or not, and she is the better negotiator.

Etienne · Club Coach

Based on what evidence? She's folded each time she's had any pressure, and is alienating all those who she needs to negotiate with. She is parroting the absurd no deal is better than a bad deal because she knows there is no plausible deal that she could come back with that would satisfy both the people for whom immigration is the priority and those for whom not tanking the economy is the priority.

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes, I did raise my eyes at the "better negotiater" although maybe just meant in relative terms against the Labour high command.

Her err negotiating style has a certain reputation, Ken Clarke being caught calling her a "bloody difficult woman". Maybe a stength at times or a weakness if you are no compromise with whatever that entails or ultimately are forced into a big u-turn from an untenable position.

We already seem to have been alienating much of the rest of the EU with Brexit talks hardly having got going. And we're the one clearly most effected by the terms of the deal or no-deal.

-- Edited by indiana on Sunday 4th of June 2017 02:41:46 PM

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

Well I'm hoping this year's vote sees the tide of history continue its recent run in favour of my preferences....2010 saw us saved from the brink of national bankruptcy; 2014 from the nation being broken up; 2015 from the dead hand of Coalition government; 2016 from the tyranny of unelected Eurocrats.

If 2017 sees an increased Tory majority, the Brexit negotiations can be effected against a backdrop of not needing to satisfy any particular small pressure group of disaffected Tories (Ken Clarke, Anna Soubrey, etc) and ideally too if Nicola Sturgeon loses some seats in Scotland maybe she'll give Indyref2 a rest for a while to concentrate instead on using her devolved powers to better effect.

Sorry, Etienne, but no deal is assuredly better than a bad deal as David Cameron found to his cost. If the EU had offered Cameron anything worthwhile Brexit would not be occurring; more fool the EU if they have not learnt the lesson from that and want to push us away to trade exclusively with the rest of the world.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

I'm still laughing at your post Vohor. Negativity as a way of defending this government doesn't do it for me. As long as those at the top are doing well it's fine though eh?

Etienne · Club Coach

Brexit is an existential threat to the EU. If the EU gives the UK a deal that is as good or almost as good as current membership, then why would anyone stay? The deal has to be substantially worse. Of course it would hurt the EU to lose barrier free trade to the UK, but it would hurt the UK far more, we're a smaller market, with a much higher proportion of our trade with the EU. The UK had considerable leverage in the EU as a member (have a look at the Wikipedia page on opt-outs for example - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_European_Union) but the Leave vote has destroyed that.

indiana · Tennis legend

Each of the other EU countries would be losing their special trading relationships with one country ( albeit a relatively big one ), the UK.

And the UK loses its trading relationships with all of them.

Plus so many other matters affected.

And "it's more fool the EU" if the UK just goes without anything partially replacing this ?! They must be quaking in their boots Actually as said it's not particularly in their interests at all not to make leaving harsh in many ways and some of May's posturing must make many laugh.

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

We import more from the EU than we export to it; if the EU want us to utilise our trade deficit elsewhere it will be their loss and hence foolish of them. They may not be quaking in their boots but they would be shooting themselves in the foot! Lots of posturing on both sides so far; the point is Cameron got his posturing all wrong and came away with nothing worthy of the name.