UK GENERAL ELECTION 2017

Vandenburg · Futures level

UK GENERAL ELECTION 2017

Miriambee · Futures level

It's on the Lib dem website, so public info, they gained 1000 new members by lunch time yesterday and 2,500 by the end of the day.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Dream on

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I'm not sure quite why paulisi sees it as a strange decision and I appreciate the pro-Lib-Dem optimism, (and they'll surely pick up some seats, how could they not?) but it seems to me that most of the party have been nagging May to call an election for the last couple of months, and they now will cruise into power, with an increased majority, giving everybody a new five-year tenure, and a cushier life, with a largely increased majority and little opposition.

I really don't know whether it's worse to have effectively a one-party election where the result is a foregone conclusion or the situation in France where there are four candidates pretty evenly supported and, as of Monday, we may actually end up with a run-off between the ultra extreme right and the ultra extreme left and the world continues to go to hell in a hand-basket.....

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
I'm not sure quite why paulisi sees it as a strange decision and I appreciate the pro-Lib-Dem optimism, (and they'll surely pick up some seats, how could they not?) but it seems to me that most of the party have been nagging May to call an election for the last couple of months, and they now will cruise into power, with an increased majority, giving everybody a new five-year tenure, and a cushier life, with a largely increased majority and little opposition.

I really don't know whether it's worse to have effectively a one-party election where the result is a foregone conclusion or the situation in France where there are four candidates pretty evenly supported and, as of Monday, we may actually end up with a run-off between the ultra extreme right and the ultra extreme left and the world continues to go to hell in a hand-basket.....

Yes. The French election is definitely a concern. If as you say, we get ultra left v ultra right, I think one is saying out of Europe and the other out of Nato. Scary times.

Sim · County player

Theresa May has worked out there is no better time to hold an election, just before she gets down to the real Brexit talks, and if she waited until 2020 then almost certainly Labour would have a new leader, who could only more of a threat than Corbyn, and if Brexit goes badly the Tories could lose in 2020. This way she gains a couple of extra years which may be what it takes to resolve Brexit.

With (everyone assumes) an increased majority she is less concerned about dissent from within Tory ranks, and as the SNP can hardly improve on their number of MPs if they lose a couple she can say the SNP bubble has burst to boot.

She has obviously calculated that the return of some ex Tory voters from UKIP plus those in the centre who can't see Corbyn as PM will more than offset losing some seats to the Lib Dems.

Only if there is some real strategy and all of those who oppose a hard Brexit vote for the Lib Dems (in England atleast) could it cause her concern. However as has already been pointed out the Lib Dems don't have a leader such as Paddy Ashdown or Nick Clegg who is a household name, and are starting from too small a base to make any real difference.

blob · All-time great

A very dangerous and cynical power grab, of course neatly brushed off as seeking a mandate.
I have done a *lot* of canvassing opinion from all over the spectrum and every possible angle over the last 24 hours.
Almost everyone is treating this, at least at this stage, as effectively a referendum on the referendum to leave the EU. A single issue election.
Reinforce the mandate, or oppose it.

Well, Conservatives will surely win, even were the opposition more credibly led.
But, they aren't being voted in just for Brexit negotiations.
You win the General Election, you get 5 years (if you want it all). You decide all policies.

That mandate will be assumed to be for *all* policies equally, at least by the Conservatives once in power - look, we have a landslide mandate.
Because of the peculiar (unique even) nature of leaving the EU, it causes people to vote against traditional party lines, or Labour/Conservative policies, as it tramples everyhting in it's wake.
You will get a lot of working class, pro-leave constituencies, traditional Labour strongholds, voting in Conservatives on the almost exclusive basis of wanting to leave the EU and see it done as quickly as possible, and as hard an exit as possible.
And, they will surely get that.

But, at the same time they will surely be voting against their own traditional interests.
This current Conservative crop are pro-privatising pretty much everything (Education, Prisons, parts of the NHS and MOD etc.), and reducing protections for workers up and down the ticket.
And they'll implement those policies and turn around and say their massive mandate is evidence and proof that this is what the country wanted and voted for.
You can't vote for a: pro-Exit, anti-the-rest-of-the-Tory-manifesto option - which is what I think a fair proportion would instinctively want.
You give them the keys to the whole castle.

Perhaps voters believe that it's *only* five years, and once we have left the EU we can vote another lot in to counter the excesses of whatever an unchecked 5 years of Conservative rule causes.

But, this is a critical juncture - the world is fundamentally changing as people talk about their grievances with things for which they have absolutely no solution - corporatism, globalism etc.
In less than a hundred days, the Trump administration has already enacted policy that will probably take years to undo the full effects of, and they've only just started [I spare you the full details here, but if you really want me to bore on about the minutiae of 2017 US politics to justify that claim, I most assuredly will].
The same can be true here. Regulations slashed, protections dismantled, standards removed.
And that even if the new UK versions of existing EU laws are timely, efficient and entirely effective - how much like lawyers and government does that sound?

Yes, we will leave the EU.
Perhaps the other policies that play exactly in to exacerbating causes of working class unrest but you'll have spent a decade to stand still on those issues - the ones that will actually start giving more people a fair and honest share of their labours.

Theresa May, who, incidentally, was my MP until relatively recently, is using the EU exit as a macguffin to get the things she really cares about done; and remember, she is not a pro-leave voice; leaving is not what she cares about.
Her interests are, and always have been, all about giving the most latitude to the private sector in all parts of the government and the nations infrastructure.

This agenda will be folded in along with the EU stuff, and the threat is implicit - if you want to give Labour or the Lib Dems a chance with the exit then go ahead, otherwise, shut up and like these other policies too.
In five years people will emerge dazed and confused as to why so much wealth has been ever more concentrated in to an even smaller number of hands, and why services have been cut at the same time.
But, you'll be out of the EU.
And that will be the stick with which they will beat you.

If, like Ms. May has now done, a person promises repeatedly, to absolutely not do something, and then does it anyway. You are well to distrust them.

But the 'Brexit' sleight of hand has everyone looking the wrong way at the wrong time. It's driving us mad, and polarising us like never before, despite the insistence of the PM this week, that al's well and dandy actually. It's poison, whether for or against. It's making us, politically... American: two separate alien tribes that barely even acknowledge each others existence without four letter words.
A snap General Election isn't going to help that.
When the Conservatives win, pro-leave people will trumpet it at every opportunty, 'the country has spoken, AGAIN!!!'
The choice isn't a real one about governance of the country, or the direction of policy. It's about silencing critics, and enabling personal ambition.

Honi soit qui mal y pense!

paulisi · Tennis legend

I would like to remove the word strange and replace with surprise. It was talked about, but no-one really thought it was going to happen.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

I've heard plenty of dumb things said today but this one takes the biscuit.

"Calling this election is anti-democratic".

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Well, with 522 votes to 13, it's nice to know the MPs at least agree on something....

indiana · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Well, with 522 votes to 13, it's nice to know the MPs at least agree on something....

So Head Turkey Corbyn led the troops through the voting lobbies.

Vandenburg · Futures level

But what makes me angry is that the diabetic witch Theresa, has called this snap election purely because of ego/selfish reason, typical Tory greed. This is a power grab similar to that in Turkey last week. After saying so many times there would be no snap election, she changes her mind. For someone that calls themself christian, she is a liar, a sinner.

She has only called this as, she knows labour are weak. Why not just say that instead of some bs about needing a mandate. Silly silly women. Let's hope the 48% get mobilized and oust this silly women,.

indiana · Tennis legend

Order, order, would honourable forum members just take care with their choice of words regarding our elected representatives.

thejester · Satellite level

Bob in Spain wrote:
Given that the result is a foregone conclusion, the election is going to be very interesting for many other reasons. There are a lot of sub plots going on.

Labour: How far will they fall ? Jeremy Corbyn is quite simply unelectable. I have seen at least 10 Labour MPs interviewed on the news today and I have yet to see one of them back him as a leader they want to follow.

UKIP: Is it now irrelevant ? It wasn't only a single policy party, it was also a one man party and with Farage gone, they could also fall back dramatically. Having said that, I have just heard that Farage is talking about standing again. He does like putting himself in the limelight, doesn't he.

Lib Dems: They have the biggest chance of making progress as a protest party against Brexit. Will it be enough to make any difference ? No, but it will be interesting to see how many additional seats they pick up. But as Indiana says, Mr Farron does not inspire confidence.

SNP: They will see this as another Scottish independence preview vote. They will likely sweep the board again in Scotland, but the English will get extremely tired of hearing Nicola Sturgeon's voice.

For me, the next election in 5 years time will be a lot more interesting. I am still convinced that the UK will not a deal on Brexit. The 27 countries of Europe will argue amongst themselves, failing to reach agreement and no deal with the UK will be reached. It won't. in my opinion, be the fault of Theresa May or the Tory party, but they will get the blame anyway. A new Labour leader for the next election, might see an opportunity.

Personally, I think we should all move to Chesterfield and vote for Toby Perkins.

I live in Chesterfield and have to say from 4/5 interactions, Mr Perkins is a great bloke.

indiana · Tennis legend

Sim wrote:
Theresa May has worked out there is no better time to hold an election, just before she gets down to the real Brexit talks, and if she waited until 2020 then almost certainly Labour would have a new leader, who could only more of a threat than Corbyn, and if Brexit goes badly the Tories could lose in 2020. This way she gains a couple of extra years which may be what it takes to resolve Brexit.
With (everyone assumes) an increased majority she is less concerned about dissent from within Tory ranks, and as the SNP can hardly improve on their number of MPs if they lose a couple she can say the SNP bubble has burst to boot.
She has obviously calculated that the return of some ex Tory voters from UKIP plus those in the centre who can't see Corbyn as PM will more than offset losing some seats to the Lib Dems.
Only if there is some real strategy and all of those who oppose a hard Brexit vote for the Lib Dems (in England atleast) could it cause her concern. However as has already been pointed out the Lib Dems don't have a leader such as Paddy Ashdown or Nick Clegg who is a household name, and are starting from too small a base to make any real difference.

Nick Clegg wasn't really a household name before the 2010 leader debates, but made a big impact in them against Brown and Cameron. While I rather doubt Tim Farron could have a similar impact you never know.

Brown has been the only PM to fully engage in election leader debates and much good it did him. The calculations are generally that there is more to lose than gain hence May's current position on not taking part.

Whatever many may think and wish all to take part ( and one can argue that nowadays they all should ) that position as well as the Tories' very holding of a snap election are entirely understandable as politicians. And without knowing the Turkey details I rather think the democratic process will be better adhered to than the allegations there so not sure about the links being made elsewhere between the Turkish and British leaders.