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Post Info TOPIC: Leeds United


All-time great

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RE: Leeds United


I know Leeds get their fair share of Sky matches, but iy seems criminal that this huge match isn't on their flagship main channel.

I'm trying to do a bit of work and have the match on in the background, and I've missed both goals, ha, and I'm not used to having no replays, or not being able to rewind (with it being the red button).

Leeds look the better team in the second half.



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Tennis legend

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Ace Ventura wrote:

I know Leeds get their fair share of Sky matches, but iy seems criminal that this huge match isn't on their flagship main channel.

I'm trying to do a bit of work and have the match on in the background, and I've missed both goals, ha, and I'm not used to having no replays, or not being able to rewind (with it being the red button).

Leeds look the better team in the second half.


Let me talk you through the Brentford goal.

Cooper rolls a gentle back pass to Casilla. Casilla tries to control it but the ball runs clean under his foot.  He tries to turn and recover but falls flat on his face as though someone has tied his shoelaces together.  Brentford CF taps the ball in from 2 years unopposed.

Overall though, very happy with the performance tonight and a point at Brentford is a decent result and with Charlton holding on to beat Forest, not a bad night for us.

Can't believe I will be cheering for Millwall tomorrow.



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Tennis legend

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How we didn't score 5 or more today I will never know but with all the other teams in the Top 6 dropping points, I am not complaining.

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Hall of fame

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Bob in Spain wrote:

How we didn't score 5 or more today I will never know but with all the other teams in the Top 6 dropping points, I am not complaining.


 and breathe ..........



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Grand Slam Champion

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Bob in Spain wrote:

How we didn't score 5 or more today I will never know but with all the other teams in the Top 6 dropping points, I am not complaining.


 21 shots to 3. Leeds goals relative to chances or possession must be one of the worst in the league. 36000 gate today, a little air now to 3rd

 



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Tennis legend

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Disappointing news from Leeds today, whichever way you look at it. Kiko Casilla has been banned for 8 matches for "allegedly" making a racist comment.

www.bbc.com/sport/football/51628153

I am finding this one difficult to judge. Let me state for the record first of all that racism is ALWAYS wrong. If Casilla did make a racist remark then I fully support the ban but it should be pointed out that Casilla, even now, fervently denies any wrong doing.

However, my real beef here is with the FA's handling of this case, which has, IMHO, bordered on catastrophic.

The alleged incident happened in Sept and it has taken the FA over 5 months to call a hearing and determine a case. If it was a clear cut offense, then why would it take 5 months to call a hearing and take a decision. He should have been banned IMMEDIATELY. The fact that it has taken so long suggests that the case was NOT clear cut. However the "burden of proof" in these cases is deemed to be a 51% probability that a racist incident occurred rather than being proof "beyond reasonable doubt".

Having finally come to a decision and made a judgement, the punishment has been handed down, but the FA have NOT issued their report into the reasons for their finding. Given the length of time this has taken, they should have published their evidence at the same time as announcing the punishment. Failure to do so has left the door open to conspiracy theories and accusations from fans (rightly or wrongly) that they have based their decision on zero hard evidence and simple hearsay. The fans may well be wrong, but the appalling timetabling of announcements has led to this situation and in that regard, the FA have shot themselves in the foot and left many questions unanswered.

I say again. If he is guilty, I fully support the ban, but I will reserve judgement as to the validity of this decision until such time as I have seen the report.

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Futures level

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I dont think anyone right minded with argue with you there Bob. If he said a racist remark.....well a supporters would be banned for life (and rightly so) so as a player an 8 week ban and a fine seems quite light. But the key thing here is that there seems to be no proof other than the accusation? How does that work? We obviously do not have all the facts in that one article but not only is this way of "proving" guilt alarming, I suspect it could be challenged in a court of law. (A proper court....not an FA one) A very dangerous precedent.

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Tennis legend

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Lots of Leeds fans claiming on Social Media to know what was said and in what context, but as Twitter is not the most reliable source of information, I will not repeat those claims here and will wait for the official report.

But what has upset Leeds fans even more, is that having had 5 months to make a decision and an announcement, the FA chose to wait until around 7.30pm on a Friday night when we are the early kick off on a Saturday - they see it as a deliberate attempt to disrupt our game preparation.

And there are many more fans who agree with Shhh's comment, that Leeds should take this to court or to CAS in an effort to get it overturned.

It will, no doubt, be increase the siege mentality at the club.

Good luck to our 19yo back up keeper Messlier today. Rated as the 2nd most valuable U21 goalkeeper in Europe, let's hope he can show us what he is capable of.

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Tennis legend

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I know nothing about this but I completely agree with you, Bob, and Shhh.

Justice must not only be done but it must be seen to be done.

The problems of not doing so can be seen in what's happening now - angry fans, accusations of vested interest, conspiracy theories etc etc etc

The due process is as much a part of justice as the result.

However, the burden of proof is interesting - it's obviously the balance of probabilities for all civil cases, and that includes defamation (which is rather similar). It's only beyond reasonable doubt for criminal charges i.e. anything where your liberty can be taken away.

I've no idea what the burden of proof is for other sport arbitration decisions - I presume they are all the same???

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Grand Slam Champion

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4 nil Bob, ship steadied ! Great win, looking strong again.

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Tennis legend

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JonH comes home wrote:

4 nil Bob, ship steadied ! Great win, looking strong again.


4 games

4 wins

4 clean sheets

But this is the Championship.  There will be no counting chickens here. It's not over until it is mathematically certain. Even then we run the risk of the season being "annulled" as they cancel the last few games because of the Corona Virus. wink



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Bob in Spain wrote:

Disappointing news from Leeds today, whichever way you look at it. Kiko Casilla has been banned for 8 matches for "allegedly" making a racist comment.

www.bbc.com/sport/football/51628153

I am finding this one difficult to judge. Let me state for the record first of all that racism is ALWAYS wrong. If Casilla did make a racist remark then I fully support the ban but it should be pointed out that Casilla, even now, fervently denies any wrong doing.

However, my real beef here is with the FA's handling of this case, which has, IMHO, bordered on catastrophic.

The alleged incident happened in Sept and it has taken the FA over 5 months to call a hearing and determine a case. If it was a clear cut offense, then why would it take 5 months to call a hearing and take a decision. He should have been banned IMMEDIATELY. The fact that it has taken so long suggests that the case was NOT clear cut. However the "burden of proof" in these cases is deemed to be a 51% probability that a racist incident occurred rather than being proof "beyond reasonable doubt".

Having finally come to a decision and made a judgement, the punishment has been handed down, but the FA have NOT issued their report into the reasons for their finding. Given the length of time this has taken, they should have published their evidence at the same time as announcing the punishment. Failure to do so has left the door open to conspiracy theories and accusations from fans (rightly or wrongly) that they have based their decision on zero hard evidence and simple hearsay. The fans may well be wrong, but the appalling timetabling of announcements has led to this situation and in that regard, the FA have shot themselves in the foot and left many questions unanswered.

I say again. If he is guilty, I fully support the ban, but I will reserve judgement as to the validity of this decision until such time as I have seen the report.


The report is out and it doesn't make good reading - not just from a Leeds point of view, but from a human point of view.

I have been heavily critical of the FA in the manner in which they have handled this matter, but having read their report, I do think that in the end they have come to the correct decision under the "burden of proof" criteria to which they work.

The claim is that Casilla directed a vile racist insult at the Charlton player - I won't repeat it here. Having read the evidence from both sides in the report, I agree that it is more likely than not that this comment was made. There was no definitive proof and the case was basically was 2 players word against Casilla.  Their evidence seems plausible and sadly I am inclined to believe them. Casilla's defense, on the other hand, has a lot more inconsistencies and while aspects of that defense could be true in isolation, there are definitely contradictions in the overall picture of his arguments.

If anyone wants to read the full report, there is a link to a PDF file at the bottom of this page

http://www.thefa.com/news/2020/mar/03/kiko-casilla-written-reasons-030320

If what was claimed to have been said, was indeed said, it was inexcusable and the punishment is correct.  In the best interests of everyone, I hope that Casilla is quietly moved on to another club at the end of the season.



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All-time great

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You wonder how his black team mates reacted to him in training?

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Tennis legend

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seagull wrote:

You wonder how his black team mates reacted to him in training?


He had a number of black team mates, former team mates and coaches speak up on his behalf.  The report does  stress that they do not consider his character to be inherently racist, but simply that this was a "red mist" moment of madness. In addition, it stresses that his level and understanding of the English language is extremely limited and perhaps he didn't understand the full implication of this word in English. There is no equivalent word in Spanish.  However, he knew enough to know that it was a racial slur, otherwise why would have have said it.

For me, there is no excuse.



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Bob, thanks for posting it - interesting read, even if only skimming it.

And, yes, the takeaway seems pretty clear that (1) he said it, that (2) he knew what it meant (after all, the basis of the word is clear from Latin roots, as also transposed into Spanish, and he admits himself - at footnote 9. on page 16 - that in Spanish it is 'not a good word' and can be interpreted as insulting) and that (3) he also knew that it was offensive in English or else he wouldn't have put the f-word in front of it, and used it as an insult.

It's a shame, in my opinion, that he didn't use the 'red mist' argument himself and simply profusely, hugely and humbly apologise. Not that it would have made it right but claiming he didn't even know the word existed is just plain ridiculous and even more insulting.

It's a delicate area but there are many very insulting words that one can sort of get away with and others one can't. I know this sets myself up, but I would give a certain, limited leeway to youngsters/foreigners, if it's the first time, and it is based on a word. I see way too much actual racism in my line of work, by very polite well-spoken people. Racism that really ruins people's lives. It turns my stomach to acid. And nothing is done about that. It doesn't make this guy's offense any less but I just wish he'd simply asked forgiveness.

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