Week 33 - ATP Masters 1000 - Western & Southern Open - Cincinnati, OH (hard)

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

RE: Week 33 - ATP Masters 1000 - Western & Southern Open - Cincinnati, OH (hard)

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Ah well. I suppose you can't win 'em all! A final too far...

Final: (12) Marin Cilic WR 14 defeated (1) Andy Murray WR 2 by 4 & 5

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

2nd set goes the same way as the first and Cilic wins 4&4.

The extra 400 points would have been nice, but the defeat is no big deal after the couple of weeks that Andy has had. Cilic served pretty well to be fair.

Julia Carrot · All-time great

Andy could have turned the 2nd set round but instead had a childish rant with the umpire .

theemptyvessel · Club Coach

Cilic deserved that to be fair. If Andy had snuck a break at 2-1 0-30 in the first he might have got to him but after that Marin served really well and was crushing his forehands. I know the business with the umpire didn't help but I don't think Andy had it in him to go three sets today anyway, his overall play was below par and clearly he didn't have anything else in the tank and understandably so. I still really like his chances in New York, especially if Novak is truly struggling with his wrist and that is not just a smokescreen.

steven · Tennis legend

Despite today's defeat, Andy is the only player ever to win the men's singles gold medal at the Olympics then reach the final of an ATP tour event before the closing ceremony.

It's not quite the best performance in the week after winning men's singles gold though - Andre Agassi won Cincy the week after winning gold at Atlanta in 1996, when tennis came in the 2nd week of the Games, though equally, they were both held in the same country.

Spectator · All-time great

If we talk about "what if Djokovic/Federer/Nadal hadn't been there," the Croatian version of this board must have the "what if the Big Four hadn't been there" discussion in spades. Cilic has a Slam and now a Masters. And that's with the bulk of his career so far having coincided with all the Big Four.

I was surprised Mr Murray got as far as he did, given that he looked as if he could barely stand up after the Olympic final ... and then was on a 3:00 AM flight. Well done to him. But I rather wish that, having got so far, he had won. Cilic is another whom I don't like to see him lose to - and particularly before a Grand Slam which Cilic has already won. But Steven has put it in perspective .... thank you as ever, Steven!

indiana · Tennis legend

Spectator wrote:
If we talk about "what if Djokovic/Federer/Nadal hadn't been there," the Croatian version of this board must have the "what if the Big Four hadn't been there" discussion in spades. Cilic has a Slam and now a Masters. And that's with the bulk of his career so far having coincided with all the Big Four.

I was surprised Mr Murray got as far as he did, given that he looked as if he could barely stand up after the Olympic final ... and then was on a 3:00 AM flight. Well done to him. But I rather wish that, having got so far, he had won. Cilic is another whom I don't like to see him lose to - and particularly before a Grand Slam which Cilic has already won. But Steven has put it in perspective .... thank you as ever, Steven!

Well done to Marin.

But I think the effect of the 'big 4' on Cilic pales by comparison with the effect of the other 3 on Andy.

Cilic is not exactly a serial attender at the later stages of Slams, and indeed has as a seed gone out pretty early in so many Slams that I am sure the bulk of his exits have not been to 'big 4' members though some clearly have been. Andy is very much a serial late stager and in most cases has finally lost to one of these other 3.

In Slams Marin has 1 title, no runners up, 2 losing SFs and 5 losing QFs - a total of 8 last eight appearances and 1 title.

In Slams Andy has 3 Titles, 8 runners up, 9 losing SFs and 7 losing QFs - a total of 27 last 8 appearances for 3 titles

No doubt if none of the 'big 4' had been around Marin would have been right in the mix more often, but there is little indication that he would have been at all dominant or has been more 'deprived' than quite a number of other non 'big 4' members that could be mentioned.

So the British board has considerably more right to say "what if" compared to any Croatian equivalent.

-- Edited by indiana on Monday 22nd of August 2016 12:20:16 AM

Spectator · All-time great

Thanks, Indy. I wasn't saying that statistically the impact of the Big Four on Cilic was the same as the impact of the other members on Mr Murray: clearly Mr Murray is in a different league.

But I do think that if you are a fan from a recently Slam-deprived country (ie every country other than Switzerland, Serbia or the UK), and you have a player who has had those 8 late-stage losses, every single one of which has been to a member of the Big Four - and who does have one Slam to his credit - you might just be pardoned for thinking that if they hadn't been around, your man might have had a few more Slams. Whether he would have or not is another matter - it's not the same as AM, where it's clear he would have - but I would bet you're having the discussion.

Jan · Hall of fame

Quite ridiculous that Andy was playing the final of his next tournament before many of team GB took part in the Rio closing ceremony!
I'm really not sure how he got as far as he did.
Hope he can now enjoy a few days rest with his family.

Helen40 · Grand Slam Champion

I'm gutted at this scenario, I either wanted him to win the or have a good rest before the USO. Still, a good week's work and points despite having nothing in the tank. Shows how much better he is than the rest barring the other in the big 4.

I wish him a happy and emotionally restful week in his preparation for the USO.