EU Referendum - how did you vote ?

Ratty · County player

RE: EU Referendum - how did you vote ?

christ · Futures qualifying

vohor wrote:
... the men and women of the broadcasting news channels (who appear to be almost exclusively Remainers) ...

This does appear to be the case, doesn't it.

indiana · Tennis legend

vohor wrote:
Bear in mind, too, that because the "experts" (yes, them again) had all been assuming Remain would win the markets had actually risen in the immediate run-up to the referendum; which exacerbated the after-effects. Yes, 4 working days is a short time frame; but so far Armageddon it ain't; and the men and women of the broadcasting news channels (who appear to be almost exclusively Remainers) seem royally cheesed off as it doesn't fit their narrative.

Clearly both the major parties in upheaval, looking for new leaders ( though one old one fights on ) and hence looking inward, is hardly ideal. Safe to say it hasn't been steady as we go in that respect though we will see how that all shakes out in time.

As far as the currency and stock markets have gone, yes they rose a bit pre the poll, fell sharply after and then recovered a lot, although very valid points made re the relevance of the FTSE 250 against the FTSE 100.

Who knows again for sure how they will settle either ( I'd say expect much more volatility than normal for some time ) and there is much uncertainty re many directly related general social effects and ( hopefully just temporarily ) the increasingly open intolerance in our society as some keyboard warriors think they have some sort of green light to openly be disgusting.

This is a long term business. Armageddon ( not a term I like, but understandable to use it given some Remain stuff ) was never totally going to happen within the first week, and most certainly not clearly go away again. And while yes, some of the Remain propoganda was probably OTT ( and maybe counterproductive ) there is still a hell of a lot to be concerned about for the coming years. So much is very unclear, and that certainly is the case within Leave leaders, who more than anyone seem to need time to get their head round the vote before we begin negotiations with the EU.

-- Edited by indiana on Thursday 30th of June 2016 11:33:49 AM

goldfish · Futures qualifying

confuse So Boris chose 'leave', got the result he wanted but doesn't have the guts to lead us through the changes.

indiana · Tennis legend

goldfish wrote:
So Boris chose 'leave', got the result he wanted but doesn't have the guts to lead us through the changes.

While maybe true, we should also probably be grateful for that.

Quite apart from any doubts re his capabilities all his rhetoric against the EU may have made them tougher in negotiations.

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

Presumably he could see he was not going to win; not sure guts has anything to do with it. Agree that the negotiations might well go better without him being PM.
Encouraging noises coming already from Poland, Czech Republic and even the French finance minister that a sensible approach to the negotiations might break out on the other side of the table as the other countries' representatives wake up to the fact that they actually rather need our trade...

Julia Carrot · All-time great

vohor wrote:
Presumably he could see he was not going to win; not sure guts has anything to do with it. Agree that the negotiations might well go better without him being PM.
Encouraging noises coming already from Poland, Czech Republic and even the French finance minister that a sensible approach to the negotiations might break out on the other side of the table as the other countries' representatives wake up to the fact that they actually rather need our trade...

They might need our trade, but no way are we going to enjoy the 'free' trade arrangements we have now. Free movement of capital and labour are part and parcel of that package. We will not be allowed to 'cherry pick'.

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

Another strong day today for both FTSE100 and FTSE250

indiana · Tennis legend

vohor wrote:
Another strong day today for both FTSE100 and FTSE250

Going to give a daily commentary or an every time up comentary on a long term process and effects issue ?

And anyway as you said the markets didn't judge the vote very well, they may be making some other misjudgements such as what we will get out of the negotiations. Maybe it's an instant 'Thank Goodness Boris won't be PM' reaction !

Lots of time to see how life in general changes for the better or worse. I'd of course like it overall not to be worse.

-- Edited by indiana on Thursday 30th of June 2016 05:27:41 PM

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Just arrived back in Spain. Had to queue up for 30 mins at passport control. Never had to do that before. Welcome to post Brexit Europe for me.

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

indiana wrote:
vohor wrote:
Another strong day today for both FTSE100 and FTSE250
Going to give a daily commentary or an every time up comentary on a long term process and effects issue ?

-- Edited by indiana on Thursday 30th of June 2016 05:27:41 PM

Nah, think I'll leave it there smile

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

So yet another Brexiteer jumps ship today. This is rapidly becoming a shambles.

In the recent Chilcott report, amongst the many criticisms aimed at Tony Blair was that Iraq was invaded without a credible plan for putting a new "regime" in place. I fear that in years to come, the exact same criticism will be made of the Brexit campaign. One by one, the main advocates of Brexit have disappeared leaving everybody else to clear up the mess.

All the way through the campaign, we were told to trust the Brexiteers as they would be able to negotiate a leaving process that would benefit the country and negotiate a series of future trade deals etc. But where are they now ?

Michael Gove has shown clearly IMO that he was far more interested in furthering his own political ambitions than in the best interests of the country.

Boris Johnson was stabbed in the back, but has since disappeared without a trace. Why didn't he respond to Gove by running against him ? I think he realised that while he may have had the support of the public, the Tory Party would not have accepted him anyway.

Andrea Leadsome, whilst I believe being a genuine person despite her faux pas with the media over the weekend, has quite simply proved that she was not up to the task.

Nigel Farage has headed for the pub to wallow in his own self importance converting UKIP from a one-man-band to a no-man-band.

Politics in the UK has surely never been in such disarray. In Jeremy Corbyn we have a secret Brexiteer (IMO) who won't admit it because he would lose his own position, and we now have an opposition on the verge of civil war as the parliamentary Labour Party is completely at odds with its own members.

I read this very interesting article this morning from the former Canadian Ambassador to the UK who gave his own opinion on Brexit.

www.opencanada.org/features/brexit-post-mortem-17-takeaways-fallen-david-cameron/

Whilst I don't agree with all of his points, Nº7 in particular is the biggest fear for me. All Brexiteers were adamant that we could negotiate with the EU allowing us to leave under our own terms. If I was the EU, I would be saying, "Clear off. We have more important things to deal with right now than the UK." The most interesting stat is that 45% of UK exports go to the EU. Only 8% of EU exports go to the UK. So they don't need to be in a hurry to negotiate new trade deals. The UK needs the rest of Europe far more that Europe needs the UK.

When the Brexit vote was initially announced, I was disappointed but fairly philosophical about the whole situation. But as time goes on, I find myself both more worried about the future and more angry about the whole situation.

Kounosuke · Intermediate Club Player

I voted to leave and I'm just as disappointed as you that the next PM will be a remainer, though obviously for different reasons.

indiana · Tennis legend

Bob in Spain wrote:
So yet another Brexiteer jumps ship today. This is rapidly becoming a shambles.

In the recent Chilcott report, amongst the many criticisms aimed at Tony Blair was that Iraq was invaded without a credible plan for putting a new "regime" in place. I fear that in years to come, the exact same criticism will be made of the Brexit campaign. One by one, the main advocates of Brexit have disappeared leaving everybody else to clear up the mess.

All the way through the campaign, we were told to trust the Brexiteers as they would be able to negotiate a leaving process that would benefit the country and negotiate a series of future trade deals etc. But where are they now ?

Michael Gove has shown clearly IMO that he was far more interested in furthering his own political ambitions than in the best interests of the country.

Boris Johnson was stabbed in the back, but has since disappeared without a trace. Why didn't he respond to Gove by running against him ? I think he realised that while he may have had the support of the public, the Tory Party would not have accepted him anyway.

Andrea Leadsome, whilst I believe being a genuine person despite her faux pas with the media over the weekend, has quite simply proved that she was not up to the task.

Nigel Farage has headed for the pub to wallow in his own self importance converting UKIP from a one-man-band to a no-man-band.

Politics in the UK has surely never been in such disarray. In Jeremy Corbyn we have a secret Brexiteer (IMO) who won't admit it because he would lose his own position, and we now have an opposition on the verge of civil war as the parliamentary Labour Party is completely at odds with its own members.

I read this very interesting article this morning from the former Canadian Ambassador to the UK who gave his own opinion on Brexit.

www.opencanada.org/features/brexit-post-mortem-17-takeaways-fallen-david-cameron/

Whilst I don't agree with all of his points, Nº7 in particular is the biggest fear for me. All Brexiteers were adamant that we could negotiate with the EU allowing us to leave under our own terms. If I was the EU, I would be saying, "Clear off. We have more important things to deal with right now than the UK." The most interesting stat is that 45% of UK exports go to the EU. Only 8% of EU exports go to the UK. So they don't need to be in a hurry to negotiate new trade deals. The UK needs the rest of Europe far more that Europe needs the UK.

When the Brexit vote was initially announced, I was disappointed but fairly philosophical about the whole situation. But as time goes on, I find myself both more worried about the future and more angry about the whole situation.

I believe the phrase you are looking for, Bob, is "couldn't organise a ****-up in a brewery".

I am of the view that this rather alarming inability had been much more exposed during the referendum.

Thanks for the link, there do seem some very valid points and from my Remainer standpoint the Remain campaign was far too focussed on fear mongering rather than the positive aspects of EU membership and debunking some myths / exaggerations that have long been around and repeated by the Leave campaign.

-- Edited by indiana on Monday 11th of July 2016 03:23:52 PM

BeefyDeedz · Pro player

Anybody know the odds on the UK never triggering Article 50? Asking for a friend.