EU Referendum - how did you vote ?

indiana · Tennis legend

EU Referendum - how did you vote ?

Sim · County player

indiana wrote:
I rather think the really lacklustre approach by the Labour leadership, and its failure to mobilise its activists, particularly in 'its seats' had a big bearing
But yes the mainly Tory scaremongering ( containing some truth, but exaggeration, sometimes ludicrous exaggeration, and as has been said what about pointing to the positives ?! ) backfired.
There also seems to have been a large element of "up yours!" towards both the main parties which I think in many cases had little to do with thoughts on the EU. But consequences, consequences ...

-- Edited by indiana on Friday 24th of June 2016 11:38:47 AM

Agree with your points Indy.

My eldest daughter is 18 in 2 weeks time. She is very annoyed that she didn't get to have a say in a decision that will affect her for years to come, possibly her whole life. Had Cameron followed Scotland in allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote it could well have been a different result given the vast majority of young people who support the EU.

indiana · Tennis legend

I see your point Sim. The young were so much more positive about the EU, but now ironically will be the main ones to bear the consequences of the ( maybe often not thought through and / or protest ) vote of older voters. Though I do accept that many leave voters did vote on principle on EU matters.

I note also that that fine Democrat in his early silly virtual concession statement waffled something about challenging the change to allow later registrations.

More folk allowed to vote, Nige, surely a good thing, no more mostly young probably mostly remain voters was no doubt the real issue. There were probably very many still unregistered.

Though it wasn't too bright of Cameron timing the vote when many students, again no doubt mostly Remain would have been back home or otherwise away from their registered constituency. Yes, they could get postal votes, but ...

It's all a ruddy bollocks

kundalini · Specialist Reporter + Intermediate Club Player

Totally depressed.

I voted remain. My constituency voted remain. My city voted remain (though several of the outer areas voted leave).

The history books will be absolutely brutal about Cameron; I expect him to feature on lists of the most incompetent prime ministers of all time. Did it never cross his mind that the Sun, Mail etc might have done the damage with years of anti-EU stories ?

Can't believe the Welsh voted leave after all the EU money they got.

The irony that the areas with high levels of immigration voted remain, while those that rarely see a foreign face voted leave.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

The other irony is that I think the EU will be a lot stronger.

The idea of it breaking up is nonsense, in my view.

Rather, they will bring in amendments (as definitely needed) because they know now not to ignore the mass's mutterings.

And it will be a stronger, better EU. Without us.

kundalini · Specialist Reporter + Intermediate Club Player

Sim wrote:
indiana wrote:
I rather think the really lacklustre approach by the Labour leadership, and its failure to mobilise its activists, particularly in 'its seats' had a big bearing
But yes the mainly Tory scaremongering ( containing some truth, but exaggeration, sometimes ludicrous exaggeration, and as has been said what about pointing to the positives ?! ) backfired.
There also seems to have been a large element of "up yours!" towards both the main parties which I think in many cases had little to do with thoughts on the EU. But consequences, consequences ...

-- Edited by indiana on Friday 24th of June 2016 11:38:47 AM
Agree with your points Indy.
My eldest daughter is 18 in 2 weeks time. She is very annoyed that she didn't get to have a say in a decision that will affect her for years to come, possibly her whole life. Had Cameron followed Scotland in allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote it could well have been a different result given the vast majority of young people who support the EU.

The winning margin was so big that it would have taken several significant changes to find the extra 1.3 million votes needed for remain to win.

Of course Cameron should have allowed 16 and 17 year olds to vote since the majority of them would have voted his way.

The exit polls done by Ashcroft showed Labour voters supported remain by a significant margin (think it was 63-37). Lib dems were 70-30. Conservatives leave by 58-42 margin. SNP remain by 64-36.

Young remain. Older leave.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/?utm_source=Lord+Ashcroft+Polls&utm_campaign=80ea4229e4-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b70c7aec0a-80ea4229e4-71635453

AliBlahBlah · All-time great

Well, anecdotally, I can report that though the pound has crashed and GB's credit rating has already slumped, and billions has been wiped off of the markets, one thing has seemingly already increased since Friday mornings result.
My skin is not white, I am the third generation child of immigrants that came to England after WWII. Racial abuse is not uncommon, but not altogether common either - maybe once a fortnight I'll hear something.
Yesterday evening I went out briefly to local shops, and from two different parties got a hate filled volley directed my way. I just thought it a particularly active Friday night. This morning though, out again, another, and very specific round of invective: "We'll have you out soon you ####### ####. Why don't you just #### off home? You see we don't want you. #### off ####" Then joined by two others just leaving the shop.
I left.
They followed.
I went in to the hardware store, where I know the owners. Waited there half an hour, and in case anyone were still following, and not wanting them to see where they lived, called a friend to pick me up and drive home by a circuitous route.
So, good news! Anecdotally, I can report that some things are already increased in the new paradigm!

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

AliBlahBlah wrote:
Well, anecdotally, I can report that though the pound has crashed and GB's credit rating has already slumped, and billions has been wiped off of the markets, one thing has seemingly already increased since Friday mornings result.
My skin is not white, I am the third generation child of immigrants that came to England after WWII. Racial abuse is not uncommon, but not altogether common either - maybe once a fortnight I'll hear something.
Yesterday evening I went out briefly to local shops, and from two different parties got a hate filled volley directed my way. I just thought it a particularly active Friday night. This morning though, out again, another, and very specific round of invective: "We'll have you out soon you ####### ####. Why don't you just #### off home? You see we don't want you. #### off ####" Then joined by two others just leaving the shop.
I left.
They followed.
I went in to the hardware store, where I know the owners. Waited there half an hour, and in case anyone were still following, and not wanting them to see where they lived, called a friend to pick me up and drive home by a circuitous route.
So, good news! Anecdotally, I can report that some things are already increased in the new paradigm!

I am so sorry that in this day and age that you still have to suffer such disgusting and outrageous behavior. It makes me ashamed to be British/European and white. Whilst I do believe that we live in more enlightened times, there is clearly a long way to go before neanderthal attitudes, such as highlighted in your experience, are eradicated for ever.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Oh, AliB - I am SO sorry - for the behaviour of our joint fellow brits who are beneath contempt - for the abuse you put up with on a regular basis - for the idiocy of the voters and the sheer incompetence of the politicians (just my view) who gave the country the chance to let this worst side feel itself vindicated and justified - just plain sorry.....

Sim · County player

AliB that is truly awful and I am really sorry that this happens to you, but you have to wonder about the intelligence of your abusers. The vote was about the EU and a major part was about immigration from the EU to the UK. I assume that between 98 or 99% of EU immigrants to the UK are white. The vote had nothing to do with immigration from outside the EU which is already under the control of the British govt.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

I am more depressed about this result tenfold than I was about the Scotlnd vote in 2014. It is becoming very apparent than a lot of leave voters appear to be white working class English over 50s who have when commenting on leaving have displayed Xenophobia. I also think the blame lies right at the feet of the Tory government. These working classes are so concerned about the direction we are taking they have been duped by the tories and UKIP into this way of thinking. There is no disguising this. Even in Scotland some of the comments I have heard from elderly relatives an their friends vindicate this. It seems these people show more hatred for 'foreigners' than love and concern for their children and grandchildren.

I posted a few months back on this thread that this Tory governments legacy may end up ruining the country like Thatcher did in the 80s and I'm afraid this is looking likely. Sadly we have such a poor Labour Party that really should have spoken up earlier and showed some true working class power that doesn't reflect these Xenophobes that ultimately have won.

Today we are no longer Great Britain, just a poor dinosaur living in the past.

A Scottish Referendum is a certainty. The Tories have finally destroyed this country and the Labour Party are dead. If the Labour Party had not collapsed in the way they have there would not be this feeling. There is no alternative in Scotland, we must leave this crumbling empire of the UK.

-- Edited by Jaggy1876 on Sunday 26th of June 2016 01:55:27 PM

-- Edited by Jaggy1876 on Sunday 26th of June 2016 01:58:06 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

It is alarming to think how many are at best / kindest were / are totally confused by the imigration ramifications, already on top of so many that clearly voted 'Leave' as some sort of general protest - hey just use the most fundamentally important vote in a generation, why don't you

Totally away from the whole EU subject such behaviour is of course totally objectionable at any time.

But having a smug Farage all over our screens talking about it being a victory for the "decent folk" of this country and seeing such examples of increasing sheer vileness ( sometimes "intolerance" doesn't cover it ) just makes me even more sad. So sorry, AliB

indiana · Tennis legend

Jaggy1876 wrote:
I am more depressed about this result tenfold than I was about the Scotlnd vote in 2014. It is becoming very apparent than the majority of leave voters appear to be the masses of white working class English over 50s who have racist or bigoted undertones. I also think the blame lies right at the feet of the Tory government. These working classes are so concerned about the direction we are taking they have been duped by the tories and UKIP into this way of thinking. There is no disguising this. Even in Scotland some of the comments I have heard from elderly relatives an their friends vindicate this. It seems these people show more hatred for 'foreigners' than love and concern for their children and grandchildren.

I posted a few months back on this thread that this Tory governments legacy may end up ruining the country like Thatcher did in the 80s and I'm afraid this is looking likely. Sadly we have such a poor Labour Party that really should have spoken up earlier and showed some true working class power that doesn't reflect these Xenophobes that ultimately have won.

Today we are no longer Great Britain, just a poor dinosaur living in the past.

A Scottish Referendum is a certainty. The Tories have finally destroyed this country and the Labour Party are dead. If the Labour Party had not collapsed in the way they have there would not be this feeling. There is no alternative in Scotland, we must leave this crumbling empire of the UK.

Yes, Jaggy, I know I had a different view from you in the Scottish Referendum.

But undoubtedly this makes a second Scottish Referendum more likely, such a fundamental change in the UK situation which was majority opposed by every voting area in Scotland, in most by big to huge margins.

You may or may not be exaggerating the racist and bigotry undertones of the majority of Leave supporters ( and it worries me that I'm actually not honestly sure how much you probably are ), though your full quote is mathematically clearly impossible. But I like the United Kingdom rather less as a nation than I did on Thursday morning

For someone who loves Scotland but has always loved our United Kingdom too and could never imagine voting to separate from it let's just say the coming years may yet have me questioning my fundamental beliefs even more.

-- Edited by indiana on Saturday 25th of June 2016 08:19:36 PM

Shhh · Challenger level

Jaggy1876 wrote:
It is becoming very apparent than the majority of leave voters appear to be the masses of white working class English over 50s who have racist or bigoted undertones.

Jaggy, I ask you as politely as I can why you think that comment is acceptable?

-- Edited by Shhh on Saturday 25th of June 2016 07:49:03 PM

philwrig · Hall of fame

I voted to leave for lots of POSITIVE reasons, it was a tough decision, and one I didn't come to lightly.

But here's a few positive reasons to vote to leave :

1. Originally when we joined the EU it was supposed to be an economic union, now it clearly is much more of a political union 'United states of Europe'
2. Back in the 90's I loved my pounds and ounces, but Europe forced us into Kg and g's, so basically we as a country should be allowed to put through 100% of all the laws.
3. Free movement of peeps around Europe was a great idea, but when poorer countries were allowed to join the EU, it meant we had a disproportionate amount of people coming here from poorer countries, something which I don't think our public services can handle.
4. Wanting to be in control of immigration, I can't see as being racist, it's just being practical.
5. Brussels is a disaster zone in terms of bureaucracy, the economies in Europe other than Germany are performing in general very poorly.
6. We also make a net contribution to help out the poorer countries.

I am still European, and British but I chose to not be part of what I consider to a very poorly run EU.

Anyway assuming we can get some quality trade agreements in place, I think GB will be stronger in the long run.