Wimbledon Wildcards - Women

jb288 · Satellite level

RE: Wimbledon Wildcards - Women

PaulM · Tennis legend

Sabine's decision to take a wild card into Bad Homburg makes me think she must be in the running. It blocks her playing qualifying (if the cut falls to there, she's about 14 out just now).

emmsie69 · ATP level

Confused as to why people think Katie Swan has the worst case for a WC, she is currently one of only 2 Brit females with a high enough ranking to be in qualifying, Jodie on the other hand is an alt. Injuries are definitely stunting her progress but I'd put her ahead of Jodie

indiana · Tennis legend

The WTA rankings for 13/06 are now available. These will determine the 11 direct entries to the Wimbledon QWC play-offs from these not by then into the MD or qualifying by DE or WC and available/wishing to play.

dodrade · Satellite level

emmsie69 wrote:
Confused as to why people think Katie Swan has the worst case for a WC, she is currently one of only 2 Brit females with a high enough ranking to be in qualifying, Jodie on the other hand is an alt. Injuries are definitely stunting her progress but I'd put her ahead of Jodie

I thought the main thinking was she was due a MDWC after successfully coming through qualifying last year.

foobarbaz · Strong Club Player

emmsie69 wrote:
Confused as to why people think Katie Swan has the worst case for a WC, she is currently one of only 2 Brit females with a high enough ranking to be in qualifying, Jodie on the other hand is an alt. Injuries are definitely stunting her progress but I'd put her ahead of Jodie

Well said, Emmsie69. Best not to rise to the bait, methinks. we all want the Brits to do well, and for the GB BJK Cup team to be a top contender. Encouragement for our players is better than carping about on-court hystrionics, or percieved 3rd set weakness, or the choice of coach, etc. The ranking points system is a massive anchor for players who don't experience the miracle that happened to Raducanu, or who don't have extraordinary power, or are not familiar with slow clay surfaces, or don't get the chances that players in the US for example, get.

Strongbow · All-time great

foobarbaz wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
Confused as to why people think Katie Swan has the worst case for a WC, she is currently one of only 2 Brit females with a high enough ranking to be in qualifying, Jodie on the other hand is an alt. Injuries are definitely stunting her progress but I'd put her ahead of Jodie
Well said, Emmsie69. Best not to rise to the bait, methinks. we all want the Brits to do well, and for the GB BJK Cup team to be a top contender. Encouragement for our players is better than carping about on-court hystrionics, or percieved 3rd set weakness, or the choice of coach, etc. The ranking points system is a massive anchor for players who don't experience the miracle that happened to Raducanu, or who don't have extraordinary power, or are not familiar with slow clay surfaces, or don't get the chances that players in the US for example, get.

Well said. There is a tendancy in the UK to build people up so they be knockned down later.

indiana · Tennis legend

We do indeed all want our players to do well. But anyone expecting no discussion of such as "on court hystrionics, or perceived 3rd set set weakness or the choice of coach etc" is going to be rather disappointed.

I suggest almost all of us who do discuss such matters do so because we care for these players and yes do want them to do well and these matters interest us.

Yes, it may come across as criticism, may be criticism at times, but meant for the best rather than any wish to knock players down. "Bait" - not totally unknown but anything I have seen above, simply no, unless anyone wishes to describe anything that might dare provoke discussion as such.

Re Katie Swan, for my own part I merely pointed out that the figure that most stood out from a table was her just 2 wins over top 250 players since last Wimbledon. That's not good. But yes, she has had issues to contend with, and I expect and wish her to get a MD WC. If any others don't and have reasoned points to make for that view, or on others, or think Player A is more deserving than Player B, then to me they are fine to comment

emmsie69 · ATP level

indiana wrote:
We do indeed all want our players to do well. But anyone expecting no discussion of such as "on court hystrionics, or perceived 3rd set set weakness or the choice of coach etc" is going to be rather disappointed.

I suggest almost all of us who do discuss such matters do so because we care for these players and yes do want them to do well and these matters interest us.

Yes, it may come across as criticism, may be criticism at times, but meant for the best rather than any wish to knock players down. "Bait" - not totally unknown but anything I have seen above, simply no, unless anyone wishes to describe anything that might dare provoke discussion as such.

Re Katie Swan, for my own part I merely pointed out that the figure that most stood out from a table was her just 2 wins over top 250 players since last Wimbledon. That's not good. But yes, she has had issues to contend with, and I expect and wish her to get a MD WC. If any others don't and have reasoned points to make for that view, or on others, or think Player A is more deserving than Player B, then to me they are fine to comment

I don't have an issue with the criticism Jodie gets because it's pretty much all borne from sheer frustration that a talented player is wallowing where she is and doesn't seem to recognise that something needs to change. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. I haven't really considered the top 250 wins because a) I don't know how many she played, b) I don't know on what surface ie did she lose to a specialist clay court player on clay c)I don't know what % of her top 250 match ups were against players ranked significantly higher than she is or had been ranked higher at some point. Ultimately she has accumulated more points than Jodie in the last year but Jodie is ahead in the live race. For me if only one of them is getting a WC then it's Katies based on last years qualifying

indiana · Tennis legend

Fair comment emmsie re Katie's top 250 match-ups. I haven't looked into these at all. So rather than saying 2 wins from these is "not good" I should really have said "on the face of it, not good".

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

foobarbaz wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
Confused as to why people think Katie Swan has the worst case for a WC, she is currently one of only 2 Brit females with a high enough ranking to be in qualifying, Jodie on the other hand is an alt. Injuries are definitely stunting her progress but I'd put her ahead of Jodie
Well said, Emmsie69. Best not to rise to the bait, methinks. we all want the Brits to do well, and for the GB BJK Cup team to be a top contender. Encouragement for our players is better than carping about on-court hystrionics, or percieved 3rd set weakness, or the choice of coach, etc. The ranking points system is a massive anchor for players who don't experience the miracle that happened to Raducanu, or who don't have extraordinary power, or are not familiar with slow clay surfaces, or don't get the chances that players in the US for example, get.

Each to their own but, personally, I find the 'criticism' of the players way more interesting than simply wishing them well. The latter is a given, IMO. There's not much to say. No one's interested in people being rude or nasty. But some people on this forum are great on stats and if they tell me that Jodie's lost 15 out or 16 three-set matches this year (say - random example - no idea if true) then that's interesting. Equally some people watch a lot of tennis, matches you might not have had time to watch, and if they say that Harriet was being ultra bratty about linecalls, say, in a certain match then, again, it's interesting and also plays into your own feelings (either backing them up or contradicting them) - it's basically more info, from reasonably trusted sources, that is pertinent, and maybe important FOR them to do well. After all, I can't just wish Freya well, without wishing that she stops slicing her forehand whenever under the teensiest bit of pressure

PaulM · Tennis legend

I always say you aren't a true fan if you only ever give unadulterated positivity! The losses should disappoint you because you want them to succeed, if you see the same patterns or things being done each time you should be frustrated because you want them to get better and achieve their potential (whether that's top 50, top 250, top 500 or just getting a ranking!). We all know how much I support EWS but it has frustrated me for over 10 years that she dinks shots she should slam away for winners at the net, and it will frustrate me for another decade if she keeps going! biggrin

As long as it's never rude, cruel, derogatory and always grounded in some kind of reality. And I think we very rarely fall foul of that here because so many members have been around a long time and/or have real insight or technical knowledge. The proportion of 'bait' comments is miniscule.

And any negative comments should never be directed at the player personally (which I can't imagine anyone on here every does, I'd imagine mods would ban a user who was found to have been sending mean tweets/Instagram messages directly for example). That's the point of a fan forum, so you can discuss all these things in a safe space where people can cheer, encourage, ask questions, debate, share in the great moments and be sad about the low. Otherwise what's the point, we can just look at drawsheets ourselves, noone actually *needs* this forum to see what ITF events are happening and where Brits are playing. We need it as a place for us to come together as a group of fans/supporters and talk.

I can't imagine a football forum where if the team goes on a run of losses all the members are just talking about how great everything is and not discussing what's going wrong and would could be changed to make it better (including, even, choice of coach wink ).

And of course, if you only want to use this forum to provide encouragement to one player, or a group, or indeed every player - that's great! That's what this forum is here for too. I just don't accept that the forum should somehow only be reduced to that and nothing more.

Anyway, I'm sure it's usually the Tuesday of Birmingham wildcards get announced isn't it? So tomorrow we should hear something perhaps.

-- Edited by PaulM on Monday 13th of June 2022 11:13:55 AM

jb288 · Satellite level

Oh gosh! This discussion is very odd, given that not one person suggested that Katie shouldn't get a WC! I just listed some data and evaluated Katie's WC claim on that basis. It's perfectly fine to dispute that basis, but very odd to suggest that any discussion constitutes an attack on a player!

If we can't discuss hard data, without being accused of denigrating players we support, then I'm not clear why we would need this forum at all.

As I made very clear, I support a WC for Katie; it's the basis in data for competing claims that is of interest to me.

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes, it took a very odd turn in the initial reply to emmsie who herself merely perfectly legitimately questioningly discussed Katie and Jodie, and has subsequently given some of her own thoughts on some criticism.

However, interesting to see the further comments that have then flowed from other folk, seemingly generally of a similar mind as to what a significant part of this forum is and should be about.

PaulM · Tennis legend

Good news that Maia moved into qualifying today by right, after a withdrawal. Jodie is next in but I think we all expect to see her in the initial Main Draw awards.