Week 10 - ATP Masters 1000 - Indian Wells, CA, USA - Hard

TMH · Futures qualifying

RE: Week 10 - ATP Masters 1000 - Indian Wells, CA, USA - Hard

theemptyvessel · Club Coach

Supposedly March 20th/21st.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Ali lost the last set 3-6 :(

I've watched several of his matches and know him quite well to look at, and watch, but he's based in the south so maybe plays down here more. I also made a point to watch him the year before he changed nationality, when it was mooted that he might be going to, and he was also a lot lower ranked and so was playing at cheap, easily accessible places, where you could get up close.

Always seemed to be surrounded by a lot of GB friends, supporting him.

RJA · Hall of fame

TMH wrote:
I can't understand putting ranking limits on a player. If someone makes the top 30, it's really not that much of a jump to break the top 20. Hell, when Victor Troicki can rise as high as 12 in the world, there's no reason why Kyle cannot.

That's not to say I think he necessarily will get that high, I just think it's plain ridiculous to put a ceiling on it in this sport.

Nobody is limiting anything or putting a ceiling on how high a player can go. I simply offered an opinion on how high I think Kyle is likely to go.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

L128: Mikhail Youzhny (RUS) WR 76 defeated Aljaz Bedene WR 51 by 7-5 2-6 6-3

L128: Guido Pella (ARG) WR 40 defeated Kyle Edmund WR 82 by 6-7(3) 6-4 7-5

TMH · Futures qualifying

"I think Kyle has potential to be top 30, but probably not top 20 or 15."

That is quite literally putting a ceiling on a player.

RJA · Hall of fame

TMH wrote:
"I think Kyle has potential to be top 30, but probably not top 20 or 15."

That is quite literally putting a ceiling on a player.

If you say so disbelief

Spectator · All-time great

I think RJA's point is that what people post on this board - while entertaining those of us who choose to speculate - has no potential to affect what the player actually accomplishes and therefore can't be interpreted as constraining them in any way. After all, if Johanna Konta had listened to most of the prognostications on this board from this time last year, she would not be ranked 26th in the world right now.

I would be with you, TMH, in not liking comments that are dismissive. But I read RJA's as a reasoned opinion, supportive of the player's doing well and not ruling out the possibility that improvements in certain areas could change his mind about possibilities.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes, I agree.

After all, take it to its logical conclusion:

Do we all think that Keelan Oakley and Eden Silva can be number one in the world? Presumably not.

Therefore, by definition, we all have a 'top range' that we'd put them in.

RJA is simply saying what he thinks the top range is for Kyle.

It's no different.

And, as Spec says, it's hardly as though it makes a blind bit of difference in reality !

If we were all LTA grant awarders, it would matter. As we're not, it's just speculation and opinion, as befitting a forum.

RJA · Hall of fame

Spectator wrote:
I would be with you, TMH, in not liking comments that are dismissive. But I read RJA's as a reasoned opinion, supportive of the player's doing well and not ruling out the possibility that improvements in certain areas could change his mind about possibilities.

Well yes, I find it hard to see how comments that Kyle is likely to make the top 50 or the top 30 could be considered dismissive.

For avoidance of doubt I certainly hope that Kyle goes much further but I do have significant doubts for reasons that I have stated. Furthermore if you look at the current top 15 you will find that 12 of them had achieved more by their 21st birthday than Kyle had (10 had won titles, 2 had reached finals) and the ones that hadn't were Isner and Anderson who both went to college before turning pro as well as Tsonga who had a string of serious injuries in his late teens. I will grant you that Batista-Agut (WR 17), Goffin (WR 18) and Simon (WR 19) all had inferior career's to Kyle at the same age but they all have game styles and/or physical characteristics that go some way to explaining their late development.

None of the above places limits on what Kyle is likely to achieve but it does provide some context as to the challenge he faces in reaching the very top of the sport.

Spectator · All-time great

No, I didn't feel they were dismissive in the least - which I hoped was the point I was making. Apologies if that wasn't clear. Well-reasoned and well-made points.

RJA · Hall of fame

Spectator wrote:
No, I didn't feel they were dismissive in the least - which I hoped was the point I was making. Apologies if that wasn't clear. Well-reasoned and well-made points.

Yes, I understood your point, I was merely expanding on it.

GBJ · Club Coach

I'm really curious as to what you meant by this TMH; are you saying you think there is something wrong with people using this forum to share their guesses at how well a player will do in the rankings? If so why? Because they are likely to sometimes/often be proved incorrect?

TMH wrote:

I can't understand putting ranking limits on a player. If someone makes the top 30, it's really not that much of a jump to break the top 20. Hell, when Victor Troicki can rise as high as 12 in the world, there's no reason why Kyle cannot.

That's not to say I think he necessarily will get that high, I just think it's plain ridiculous to put a ceiling on it in this sport.

GBJ · Club Coach

Apologies for the bold - my mobile seems not to like me quoting people on this site so that's the best I could do

Helen40 · Grand Slam Champion

Andy's on court.