Week 5 - ITF ($100K) - Midland, USA Hard

tony_orient · ATP qualifying

RE: Week 5 - ITF ($100K) - Midland, USA Hard

wimdledont · Challenger level

tony_orient wrote:
Another good win for Naomi - what is so impressive about her game these days is how much better she is on an average day. I don't get the impression that she is in peak form in this event, yet that is two opponents dispatched in straight sets.

Of course a lot of that is down to her serve, which was always a weapon but now even more so - gone are the days when her serve stats would tail away as a match progressed (16 from 19 points won on the second set today).

Where do you think Naomi's serve ranks in the women's game at the moment? I would say certainly in the top 5, and hard to think of anyone apart from Serena with a consistently better serve.

I haven't faced her. Ivanovic, though, seemed to reckon it was the best she'd faced. Who's she ever faced?

indiana · Tennis legend

Still does have its off days, but much less often and not as off.

When it is on, TER-RIF-IC, and I imagine right up there. Great she has so focussed on making that weapon a more consistent weapon and not bothered if her game is more defined by it. Though there clearly have been other pleasing improvements.

wimdledont · Challenger level

Agreed, indi, but on grass, on a hot, calm day... with a few of the angular snaggles in her backhand action already ironed out...

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

YAY, well done again Naomi :D
GL against Brengle :)

DF · Tennis legend

We have been here before with previous tennis players. So near yet so far from the top 100. Let's hope that she can continue and be consistently impressive.

kundalini · Specialist Reporter + Intermediate Club Player

I'd say possibly just inside the top 5 but more likely top 10. I think we tend to see Naomi play in favourable conditions. Some of the matches in the late autumn outside in colder conditions, her serve didn't look that special, nor did she know quite how to use it. And the reports from Aus Open suggested that she couldn't cope with the wind. Naomi's first serve percentage has been nothing special this year. 2nd serve shows potential rather than actually being a consistent weapon at the moment.

Pliskova sisters, Serena, Julia Goerges, Mladenovic perhaps, Lisicki when she decides to really go for it rather than just kicking it in, may be Madison Keys.

Some of the stats below may give a clue:

www.wtatennis.com/SEWTATour-Archive/Rankings_Stats/match_stats_2016.pdf

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

There are two different approaches to tennis coaching/training (well, there's probably more than two, depending what you're focusing on) but - in general - people talk of two, namely:

1) you are as weak as your weakest link

2) You are as strong are your strongest link

Obviously most people do a balance, of some sort or other, but the starting point is fundamental.

A lot of players and coaches follow more option number 1 - work hard on your weak points because they will catch you out - you'll never be a top 100 player with a backhand like that, or whatever.

But some (Jeremy Chardy is a famous French example) are 100% behind option 2 - get your good points as good as possible and that will win you games and don't waste time on the mediocre bits, you'll never really make any worthwhile difference.

Naomi, it seems, has moved over more to the option 2 camp - and she's a perfect example of where (from an outsiders point of view) it's the right choice. She should work on the other bits, a bit, especially the 'quick-bang-for-your-buck' stuff (she still does some things that are pretty easy to correct) but she's never going to move that well, or have a backhand that can take a high, deep top-spin ball, so why bother - get that serve firing at a slightly higher percentage and you've got 'gimme' points, work on that. As she said last year, she'd never even realised that her serve was her major weapon !!! (Don't know if it was Fitzy who pointed it out but, bless them, whoever did).

tony_orient · ATP qualifying

Good to see some different opinions which I was hoping to prompt biggrin

The stats only go so far as a high winning % behind first serve relies partly on ability in points where a rally starts and not just the serve itself.

What makes me think Naomi's serve is right up there is that even when her opponents can get it back, it tends to be a floaty shot hoping Naomi won't put it away rather than being able to return her serve with speed. The one thing I haven't seen enough of is Naomi serving against top players - her serve might appear better because of the weaker returning at 50k - 100k level where Naomi has played a lot of streamed matches recently.

insomniacfolder · Challenger level

R2: Naomi BROADY (GBR) 112 defeated Jovana JAKSIC (SRB) 182 7-6(5) 6-3

QF: Naomi BROADY (GBR) 112 vs. Madison BRENGLE (USA) [1] 57 (CH 35 05/2015)
Senior H2H 0-1
2015 WTA International - Hobart, Australia - Hard - QR2, MB[q7] - MB won 6-3 6-0
Junior H2H 0-1
2007 Orange Bowl - Key Biscayne, USA - Hard - R64, NB(Q) MB[4] - MB won 6-2 6-4

Edit: H2H ranking

-- Edited by insomniacfolder on Thursday 4th of February 2016 10:21:27 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes, very good point Tony that there's rather more to first serve win %s than the first serve itself.

It often will give a big advantage as the point starts if it is not an ace or serve winner. But if the point gets going anywhere close to neutral then Naomi simply is still a fair distance in general play behind just about all these ahead of her in first serve points won % so she can really be put up an inquantifiable notch or two if you were looking for an order of when the first serve has essentially won the point.

PS : These are WTA tour stats ( I think just main draw ). They are just showing 3 matches for Naomi, basically her 3 Auckland matches. So so far generally smallish 2016 samples and particularly for Naomi, 3 matches from one location. Include Slams but not general ITF so reasonably comparable in opposition, though in time the better players will go deeper and face more top players. Be interesting to follow later if and when Naomi hopefully adds more WTA matches.

-- Edited by indiana on Thursday 4th of February 2016 10:43:51 PM

insomniacfolder · Challenger level

The 'non-serve' aspects of her game have also looked improved and improving in the two streamed matches this week. That, to me, is the most pleasing part, as I interpret it as an acknowledgment from Naomi that, even with her avowed aim to be the female Karlovic, serve alone is not enough to achieve her ambitions, and hard work is continuing on all areas of her game.
She's also fitter and stronger looking this year, more athletic rather than the very tall and in general good shape that she has always been.

Regarding her serve, somewhere between 10-20th. I'd take an average day as the benchmark, and Naomi has yet to consistently maintain her standard week in week out.
Or, to put it another way, on a bad day what does their serve do for them? In this respect, though someone like Sharapova's serve is amazing when it's working, when it goes astray - as it is prone to do - it can break down entirely, and lose her matches; her serve drops from top 3-5 to outside top 15 on balance (by my measure). Whereas when Karolina Pliskova's serve misfires, it just means she has to rally more, it's deficiencies don't lose points, they just fail to quickly win them.
I remove Serena from the equation because, honestly, in this respect, Serena is the sun and all others - even her sister at her prime - are out beyond the orbit of Pluto by comparison. She's so far removed from normal, she's not a useful comparison.

wimdledont · Challenger level

Her serve was pants today...

Naomi Aces 9 DF 7 Total +2

Jansic Aces 7 DF 2 Total +5

On her day though, Naomi can serve a couple of aces per service game, consistently, which makes her close to unbreakable, against anybody.

Then there's her DTL backhand, which isn't even a tennis shot; it's a perfectly classic late cover drive executed by a one-armed left-handed bats(person) - the spin makes it very unlikely to land within the lines, but if it does, it's unplayable.

On her day, in her zone, and just loving being a right diva about it... Broady 7-5, 7-5 Worldrestova... and nothing the rest of the world can do about it. All on her racquet.

insomniacfolder · Challenger level

wimdledont wrote:
Her serve was pants today...

For half the match, the second set was actually very good.

But, yes, that nly serve to counteract the poor quality of the serve in set 1.

Priesty · Challenger level

Great day all around with Naomi's win and the successes of our 2 in Dallas....let's hope for more of the same tomorrow!