Men's transition 1995 and 1998 cohorts

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Men's transition 1995 and 1998 cohorts

Oakland2002 · All-time great

As a way of a start I think the contrast in the different routes taken by Luke and Cam fascinating. Although Cam has the stronger junior pedigree he has chosen the college route in the short term, probably our strongest junior to do so.

Luke is still young and I think his ranking has been depressed by having a sustained crack at challengers before sustained success on the futures tour, I haven't really seen any good juniors ie those ranked 10-30 (CH) do that. Even top 5 guys generally win a string of futures events before successfully stepping up to challengers and sustaining a rating.

Plenty of admiration for Luke in going this route and I just hope he gets the support he needs re a sustained training block, physiological and nutritional review etc... Cam Norrie (CH 10) same school year and successful doubles partner in futures back in 2013 but late August birthday has just come off the back of a fantastic freshman year at TCU and had a futures singles win locally in Texas.

Although not privy to the resources Luke has had from the LTA it is probably this level of junior that the LTA takes most criticism for not supporting. Cam has come out of this year has come out of this year as an elite college freshman played a lower quality of tennis generally but through being successful been exposed regularly to the best college players. Although not pushed as much as Luke playing a regular diet of challengers but a very positive experience and well resourced by the TCU football program in terms of coaching and facilities (which are superb, but not a patch on the football stadium!) as opposed to the LTA with an ITf win.

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Saturday 5th of December 2015 07:41:08 AM

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Cam was supported by the LTA but decided being based at the NTC was not for him and chose to move to college. My own view of college for players of Cam's ability is that it gives them a year or 2 to mature mentally out of the spotlight.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes, after changing nationalities, Cam went to the NTC and had full LTA support.

But didn't like it (lasted about three months, I seem to remember).

Went back home and then decided college would be a better route.

Re now, although I'm a fan of Jay's and think he has a game which will move over to adult tennis, I think his ranking is rather inflated, and the difference between him and the others exagerated therefore.

Only three months ago Jay was outside the top 100.

He then entered, and won, a couple of really pretty weak G2 events in Egypt.

He did well to win them, no doubt, but I don't think he is now a significantly better player than he was three months ago.

(Of course, I would also argue that he was rather 'underrnaked' before i.e. it is the profile/game/potential of the player that hasn't changed, and that's what's important. And that applies to some others too.)

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Oakland2002 wrote:
The transition of what was a very strong 1995 boys cohort to senior tennis fascinates me. We had/acquired a group of very promising juniors in
Kyle Edmund junior CH 8 (2/2012) Born Joburg
Cam Norrie junior CH 10 (25/3/2013) Born Joburg
Liam Bambridge junior CH 22 (21/1/2013) Born Nottingham
Evan Hoyt CH 53 (7/1/13) Born Mexico
All have been resourced very differently, had different experiences in relation to injury and taken different routes in their attempts to establish themselves on the pro tour long term.
I see a certain similarity in the 1998 cohort of Jay, Ewan, Alexis and Ryan although there is probably no Kyle equivalent (jay probably sits somewhere between Kyle and Cam in terms of his current level of performance as a junior with a rank of 13 imminently born in the summer of 98 and still likely to play another full season of juniors).
hopefully something to discuss during the barren month of December!

You really are having fun with your Liam's and Luke's this morning wink

indiana · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Yes, after changing nationalities, Cam went to the NTC and had full LTA support.

But didn't like it (lasted about three months, I seem to remember).

Went back home and then decided college would be a better route.

Re now, although I'm a fan of Jay's and think he has a game which will move over to adult tennis, I think his ranking is rather inflated, and the difference between him and the others exagerated therefore.

Only three months ago Jay was outside the top 100.

He then entered, and won, a couple of really pretty weak G2 events in Egypt.

He did well to win them, no doubt, but I don't think he is now a significantly better player than he was three months ago.

(Of course, I would also argue that he was rather 'underrnaked' before i.e. it is the profile/game/potential of the player that hasn't changed, and that's what's important. And that applies to some others too.)

Yes, can be pretty difficult to judge these things, but I wouldn't have Jay between Kyle and Cameron at comparative stages, indeed I'd have him after Luke too.

But in keeping with the thread title this is now a very important transition stage over the next year or two, with as you suggest Jay perhaps having a game that is well suited for moving into seniors, whereas Luke has so far not come through as would have been hoped but Evan has lately significantly pushed on after a very troublesome injury period.

The 1998 group at this stage, and as we move into their final junior year, are I'd say overall comparatively quite a bit behind the 1995s, but it is the best looking group since then, and they are still certainly at an age when major strides are possible if certain things really come together for them. I will follow with interest.

-- Edited by indiana on Friday 4th of December 2015 10:45:56 AM

Priesty · Challenger level

Coup Droit wrote:
Yes, after changing nationalities, Cam went to the NTC and had full LTA support.

But didn't like it (lasted about three months, I seem to remember).

Went back home and then decided college would be a better route.

Re now, although I'm a fan of Jay's and think he has a game which will move over to adult tennis, I think his ranking is rather inflated, and the difference between him and the others exagerated therefore.

Only three months ago Jay was outside the top 100.

He then entered, and won, a couple of really pretty weak G2 events in Egypt.

He did well to win them, no doubt, but I don't think he is now a significantly better player than he was three months ago.

(Of course, I would also argue that he was rather 'underrnaked' before i.e. it is the profile/game/potential of the player that hasn't changed, and that's what's important. And that applies to some others too.)

I'm getting a vision. Sorry CD wink

Spectator · All-time great

I think the 1995 cohort was fairly exceptional: the 1998s may turn out to be very good, but they haven't yet shown the kind of results that the Junior Davis Cup-winning group did at the same stage.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Love it, Priesty !!!! Made me laugh

Oh, the innocent slips we make......

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Thanks and sorry about the Liam's now all Luked out, the undernaked is however inspired and probably should remain in Britishtennis.net terminology for a player previously underanked who obtains a new higher ranking <30 by winning tournaments.

......... other than grade A or grade 1.

Indeed we may find that as a concept "undernakedness" (UNN) is a particularly strong marker for failure to transition and significantly impact the adult rankings by age. Top 200 as a teenager is to me particularly robust as a predictor of a career as a fiscally robust career on the pro tour. To achieve that it is almost implicit that your highest junior CH is achieved around the time of your 17 th birthday.