Davis Cup 2015 - World Group Final - 27th-29th November

steven · Tennis legend

RE: Davis Cup 2015 - World Group Final - 27th-29th November

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

steven wrote:
indiana wrote:
I don't think Leon need worry about anyone taking his final selection personally ( although it will be hard to tell someone who will no doubt be very disappointed ), because to me that final phrase has permeated all his final team selections and that I would be hopeful earns respect and bonds folk, indeed creates the "goodwill" that he talks about.

"It really is about the team and making sure that the decision isn't based on anything other than what I thinks best to win the tie".

I have huge confidence that these are not mere words, it is how the man operates. The call may be the same kind as "for anyone who is in a leadership position", but I would certainly not always have that amount of confidence in these principles being followed.

Yes, hopefully Leon will reap the benefit of always having tried to take the best decision for the team (rather than the safest or most popular one) and of having taken responsibility for those decisions instead of trying to hide behind the players when anything has gone wrong, and will end up with all the players pulling together, whoever eventually gets picked. I too think it's great that he has taken along so many of the players involved in getting GB to this stage. I'm sure too that the fact that he takes responsibility when things go wrong is a major reason why fewer things have gone wrong in the first place!
Btw, someone from the BBC asked me on Tuesday whether the DC tie in Geneva in 2005 was the last time Andy played an event on indoor clay. It was certainly the last time he played an event that was officially on indoor clay, i.e. "Clay (I)" in the ITF results (indeed, the only other Clay (I) event he played was Pontevedra Futures in December 2004, where he won the title), but then I remembered that the Caja Mágica has a roof, though I'm not sure whether it fully encloses the court or just protects it from the rain with the sides partly open (does anyone know?) and Andy has played under it at least once - when he thrashed Hanescu 2 & 1 in the last 16 of the Madrid Masters in 2010. Do any of you remember any other times?
I've already replied with the things I do know and I have no idea whether or not they're going to use the info (and if so, when) but if it's for use at the weekend, there's time to send them a correction if any of you can think of an occasion when Andy has played on indoor clay that I've missed.

I believe the centre court roof closes completely. But whether Andy has played on it when it is closed is a different question.

indiana · Tennis legend

In Kevin Mitchell's piece in the Guardian today :

"Murray, who will play two singles and the doubles with his brother, Jamie ...

That's our doubles pair sorted then

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 25th of November 2015 08:54:16 PM

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

For me, there is no doubt this time that Andy will play singles AND doubles. In fact, I am so sure that will be the case, that despite the Kyle/James debate, I would not be surprised to see both picked and for Dom to miss out.

Here is my logic. Let's make a comparison with the USA match.

Against the USA, clearly IMO Andy would have played doubles if we were 1-1 after the first day, but going in 2-0 was very different. Even with Andy and Jamie playing together, we would have started 2nd favourites against the Bryan Bros so the key was for Andy to rest up for the singles against Isner.

However, against Belgium, this situation is different. Again if we are 1-1, Andy will play doubles. The difference here is that if we are 2-0 up, Andy and Jamie would be such hot favourites against Bemelmans/Coppejans (or whichever pairing they go with) that I think we would go for the jugular and try to finish the tie in 2 days. In fact, I would be more confident of winning that doubles than I would be of Andy beating Goffin.

So either way, Andy will play doubles. Therefore picking James AND Kyle gives Leon more options going into the 5th rubber - although clearly I hope it doesn't go that far.

indiana · Tennis legend

I do certainly see Andy as likely to play the doubles, especially if his singles is first on Friday, though still even if second.

I don't quite see it as cut and dried though since I would also see Jamie and Dom as strong favourites for the doubles. And as Bob indicates a singles against Goffin is not exactly a done deal so the fresher Andy is for that one the better.

It is a balance, if Andy plays the doubles I see us as a bit more likely to win the doubles, but him a bit less likely to win his reverse singles. You want to maximise the chances of 2 wins from rubbers 3 and 4, though I accept there is also some question of singles cover.

But on that note I think doubles cover is probably a bit more important. Again a bit of a weighing things up ( since issues could also arise re our seond singles player), but if Andy has any slight issues after the singles, I would prefer us not to have put our eggs in the basket of having him down for doubles. Jamie and James or Kyle for a doubles we as of now are big favourites for doesn't look great.

So I'd go with Andy, Jamie, Dom and probably Kyle ( though I don't think Kyle is a done deal ) and at this stage I think that is the most likely selection. The intention being Andy to play doubles if all basically well with him, most likely at 1-1, slightly less likely at 2-0, although I certainly agree with Bob that there is not the clear 1-1 vs 2-0 distinction that there was vs the USA

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 25th of November 2015 10:28:49 PM

steven · Tennis legend

Bob in Spain wrote:
I believe the centre court roof closes completely. But whether Andy has played on it when it is closed is a different question.

Thanks, Bob - the match I mentioned in my original post was definitely played under the roof - see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/andymurray/7720517/Andy-Murray-breezes-past-Victor-Hanescu-to-reach-Madrid-Open-quarter-finals.html, which was written at the time.

philwrig · Hall of fame

It's funny how each match of this campaign has got easier on paper, and when you see how lucky Belgium were to get here you really can only see 1 result, but this is sport and of course anything can happen. I agree that Jamie with Dom/Andy are prohibitive favourites to win the doubles, and the only matches where the underdog has a chance is Goffin v Andy and Kyle/Wardy v Darcis. So to the selection, I'm now 100% convinced that Kyle should be picked ahead of Wardy. I have 4 reasons, he's in better form ( the most obvious one ) 2. He stepped up to the plate winning that Challenger on clay when he knew he was basically playing for that number 2 singles spot, that shows when push comes to shove he is capable of elevating his level. 3. He was a major part of us winning the junior DC, as Greg pointed out last week. 4. He's beaten Darcis before. I spoke to Kyle briefly after Wardy beat Isner 70-68 in the 5th up in Glasgow, and although he was really pleased about the result, you could sense he desparately wanted to play, and this sort of result was just holding that chance back. So he will be ready !! Of course it's not ideal to make your debut in the final, but whereas if it did go a deciding rubber ( it won't IMO ) Wardy would no doubt play well, but realistically Kyle's the only one with a chance of winning. As for whether to pick Dom or Wardy, its a toughie, and for me a toss of the coin, I agree Andy plays the doubles whatever the score after Friday, but what happens if Andy's back plays up after the singles, I'd rather Andy was held back for his all important singles match, and Dom played the doubles, for which we are massive favourites for anyway, oh not an easy choice.

-- Edited by philwrig on Wednesday 25th of November 2015 10:53:34 PM

steven · Tennis legend

Like Bob, I was wondering whether Leon might leave out Dom and pick both James and Kyle, on the basis that Kyle might have a better chance v Goffin but if he had a really bad time and we ended up in a live 5th rubber, he might fancy James (with his DC experience) to deal better with that pressure. (not saying he would deal with it better than Kyle, but I can imagine that argument being made)

Then again, the toughest of the three rubbers we are most expected to win in Andy v Goffin, so being able to leave Andy out of a doubles rubber that Jamie and Dom should win fairly comfortably anyway would be a good option to have.

Whatever he does, Leon will still effectively have to make a Kyle/James decision re. day 1, but I'm surprised the option of three singles players hasn't at least been mentioned by more of those in the media. Perhaps it's because Leon has tended to pick two doubles specialists in the past.

The biggest risk, of course, is Andy getting injured. If he got injured on day 1 and lost, we'd probably be stuffed, but if he got injured playing doubles on day 2, we'd be desperate for a reserve singles player. So it really comes down to what Leon expects his doubles team to be - if he has every intention of resting Andy on day 2, he should pick Dom, but if he thinks it's very likely that he'll play Andy in the doubles, he should go with three singles players. Plus if he then ended up needing to rest Andy anyway for some unexpected reason, it's not as if Jamie + James or Kyle would have no chance against the Belgian doubles pair.

I've said it before, I know, but I've never understood why you can't pick a team of five for Davis Cup, so that you can have both a specialist doubles pair and a reserve singles player - if nothing else, that would mean less chance of the tie becoming a complete anti-climax if one of the singles players got injured on day 1.

Btw, on all the James v Kyle polls on Twitter, I've been going for Kyle (I think the fact that his recent Challenger win was on clay and his win v Darcis this year, albeit not on clay, marginally edges Wardy's DC experience), but it's as close in my head as those polls are coming out (52/48, 51/49, etc!), so I'm glad Leon is the one making the decision and that he's actually been able to watch and talk to both of them over the last few days before doing so!

wolf · Tennis legend

philwrig wrote:
I spoke to Kyle briefly after Wardy beat Isner 70-68 in the 5th up in Glasgow

I don't recall Isner ever losing a match 70-68 in the 5th.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

steven wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:
I believe the centre court roof closes completely. But whether Andy has played on it when it is closed is a different question.

Thanks, Bob - the match I mentioned in my original post was definitely played under the roof - see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/andymurray/7720517/Andy-Murray-breezes-past-Victor-Hanescu-to-reach-Madrid-Open-quarter-finals.html, which was written at the time.

Guess it would help if I read the WHOLE post before diving into my research LOL.

Jaffa · Challenger level

Its going to be A Murray, J Murray, Edmund, Ward.

Unlucky for Dom but hardly a surprise.

indiana · Tennis legend

Bit of a surprise to me, I had convinced myself of my logic earlier of doubles cover here being more important than singles cover, though it always did look like a weighing of various possible scenarios and I appreciate that some weighed them differently including apparently a Leon Smith chap.

Stay fit and healthy in the next few days, Andy !

Jaffa · Challenger level

A pal of mine who is at the event working for the ITF has just text to say it's Murray and Edmund on day 1

paulisi · Tennis legend

Jaffa wrote:
Its going to be A Murray, J Murray, Edmund, Ward.

Unlucky for Dom but hardly a surprise.

Not a big surprise.

The big question is who will play 2nd singles. Will he give each one match and if so which way round?

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

indiana wrote:
Bit of a surprise to me, I had convinced myself of my logic earlier of doubles cover here being more important than singles cover, though it always did look like a weighing of various possible scenarios and I appreciate that some weighed them differently including apparently a Leon Smith chap.

Stay fit and healthy in the next few days, Andy !

Apropos the dubs, Jamie too!