Marcus Willis

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Marcus Willis

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

We don't fundamentally disagree.

The lack of penetration into the general masses in a major problem here. And the horror of competitive sport does kids a huge disservice. As well as schools shying away from sport (too expensive, too many health and safety problems), selling off playing fields, not enough staff prepared to volunteer, etc, etc, etc,

But I don't think having a 20 year plan is a problem (and it's not 100% the LTA's fault, either)

In France, tennis was an elite sport in the early 1980s.

Then Noah won Roland Garros and people saw that a normal 'cool dude' guy could win and the government funneled a huge amount of its sport budget to tennis.

The result was that every single tiny commune, rural or within a city, applied for and received a grant and built a municipal tennis court (if not two). As such, everyone started playing, clubs became dynamic, the FFT set up leagues etc. tons of people signed up for the coaching courses, and bit by bit tennis took off.

Things don't happen overnight, you need a long-term plan that isn't simply 'let's get a couple of top 100 players'.

Vandenburg · Futures level

And the biggest joke on here, is the fact that yet, while 80% of you cannot handle my hard truths about tennis, I have created yet a great debate which you have taken part in.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Thank you for your contributions they will be sorely missed.

Yes this is a forum for debate and occasionally playing the devils advocate is an easy way of provoking it, the consensus view is you are welcome to participate, I can only apologise that you appear upset by the polite and reasoned arguments made.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

In reference to Mr Noah, he is again the son of a professional footballer who had returned to Cameroon where his talent was identified and then parachuted back into the French tennis system. His son also an elite athlete and had every tennis opportunity available to excel, but as he is just that, an elite athlete in every sense, he is now treading the boards of the NBA.

And s*** Trump has just won. Vandenburg for priminister!

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

That's my exact point. And Ali Collins is the daughter of a professional footballer. And young star of Ireland, Carr, is also the son of a professional footballer.

It's obvious that sporting genes and sporting interest run in families.

But, as you say, that sporting talent and application can go down any number of sporting paths.

It's because of the excellent club structure and the extra FFT help at a very local level that so many of the French versions go down the tennis path.

It's up to the LTA to try and make the same thing happen.

And, oh yes, s*** squared - Trump !!!

EddietheEagle · County player

Coup Droit wrote:
That's my exact point. And Ali Collins is the daughter of a professional footballer. And young star of Ireland, Carr, is also the son of a professional footballer.

It's obvious that sporting genes and sporting interest run in families.

But, as you say, that sporting talent and application can go down any number of sporting paths.

It's because of the excellent club structure and the extra FFT help at a very local level that so many of the French versions go down the tennis path.

It's up to the LTA to try and make the same thing happen.

And, oh yes, s*** squared - Trump !!!

CD, comparing British and French clubs, what would you say were the major differences between clubs and why is the FFT so much more effective at a local level?

After my own experience playing seniors tennis at a German club (and the indoor courts around), I couldn't face the prospect of rejoining a club here and getting viewed as playing material for the local midweek mixed doubles league. The atmosphere, engagement, organisation - call it what you will - were like chalk and cheese.

There have to be both reason and motivation to play no matter who you are. For me, it was the training and tournament competition: that was what I wanted to do. I wanted to get on court and smash someone (but rarely did!). For someone else, it could be a quite different motivation. In that sense, Mark and CDs' view are complementary rather than opposed. Taking CD's point, there is no properly structured business of tennis as far as the general population goes. The numbers of people engaged in competitive tennis are minimal and so the structure itself has become largely moribund. This is equally manifested at quasi professional level too, evidenced by the dearth, if not quite death, of futures and challengers.

For all the good it does, the LTA might just as well hand the Davis Cup responsibility back to the AELTC and shut itself down. Most of its employees are only working for the benefit of Wimbledon anyway. Tennis here is about constructing a £100 million roof for the benefit of professionals, not about a prestigious, truly national, club competition in which overseas players would queue up to come and play here rather than us going there. And why aren't the NCL competition finals played at Wimbledon?

As for paying professional aspirants to live the dream with their world ranking of 400, Vandenburg's rude but amusing, 'generation fail' is neatly apposite in my view. Derogatory perhaps, but it does sum up the consequences of that approach. Wasn't the whole of Bogdanovic's family living off his LTA money at one point? Or is that pure myth.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Eddie, just want to start off with re-stating that there are TONS of things that stink in France (the teaching of classical music, the Civil Service, employment law.......). So this is no lovefest with France.
But it is true that tennis just works.

From a functional point of view, the tennis works is that both sides need each other.

The tennis clubs need the FFT and the local sport councils (city and regional) in order to operate. SOmetimes it's money. Usually it's money in kind. Clubs may be on council land and not get charged rent. Or get free utilities. Or get a free groundsman/clubhouse staff. (Understanding the full French tax/subsidy system is a PhD, just to get to basic level).
The main club I was at (about 350 members) had turnover of about £20k i.e. from membership dues. And a bit of profit from events (but not much). But had operating expenses of about £40k. This was (basically) picked up by the regional sports council. The FFT also chipped in a like-for-like amount for children's licences (can't remember how much that came to but not huge, 1k tops) and was there for some capital projects. So the clubs need the authorities.

And the councils and FFT need the clubs. Their kudos comes from numbers and participation. The FFT is well-regarded by government because it is the second most important sports federation in France (behind football). And the councils need to show high numbers/events/success in order to get money from the government. So clubs need to have teams, events, members to get funding and the funders needs to fund them to have teams, events, members to get funding themselves. It's all a circle.

I don;t know how to take the benefits of the system and transplant them but my 'personal narrative', Eddie, is just like yours.

Fifteen years at French clubs. Which have quite pleasant social sides (clubhouse with bar, café, resturant that serves good three-course proper lunch for 10 euros, bingo evenings, football on large screen evenings, doubles days, wine tasting evenings etc. etc.).

But what I wanted was to play tennis. Competitively. Running around like a middle-aged rabbit, bunting the ball back, annoying the opponent, hitting one or two beautiful backhands down the line that would make me smile all day (and forget the zillions of muffed shots), ending up in a pool on the court and - hopefully - having squeaked the win from someone who basically played better than me.

The club where I was allowed me to do this - three different team events in the year (I was only team three or two, at most), with about 5 matches per event. And access to as many individual money tournaments as I could manage. Plus county championships (age category, open, ranking category).

When I came to England, there was nothing - lots of tennis courts but no clubs (OK, it's London), no competition, no nothing. Even looking out to various suburbs, still no clubs that offered anything like I was looking for. So I gave up. And only play when I go back.

EddietheEagle · County player

That's interesting. My knowledge of the overall administration of German team tennis is restricted. On a playing level though, it's a lively set-up with plenty of overseas players providing skill and interest, particularly from eastern Europe as you might imagine. The cost of running teams within clubs is often met by wealthy individuals. At ours, I was told our sponsor supported three seniors teams to the tune of about 20,000 euros a year. We also had players with respectable ATP rankings in our open and over 35 teams who presumably had their own separate arrangements with the club. Imagine a hundred or more A1 Pharmaceuticals doing that here on a grand scale!

Surprisingly to me, the LTA seem to think they finally have a tennis model here that warrants TV advertising support:-

http://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/lta-moves-away-middle-class-image-tennis-first-brand-campaign/1395667#

I don't wish to keep harping on and on about it, but I just don't see the point of this. In my view the British tennis "product" just isn't there and a TV campaign will produce precisely nothing. It's a sham basically and I'm an eagle-eyed advertising man. It'll serve only to make LTA jobsworths feel good while their agency rips them off. Park tennis, an historic bastion of the British game (to the point of once having its own governing body), is a pale shadow of its earlier life and there aren't nearly enough really good tennis clubs around. Like I said, the tennis model in this country is Wimbledon, Wimbledon, Wimbledon. The money and concentration goes on that and the shoulder events around the grass season. Everything else comes a distant fifth. Wimbledon and the LTA, collectively, need to give their brains a good racking. More importantly still perhaps, get out and talk to the coaches.

Madadman · Masters Series Champion

Looking at entry lists, i notice that Marcus is down for 2 clay 10ks in Cairo in December will be interesting to see how that goes.A couple of good weeks there and he could be back in the top 400. I wonder when he will try and change from Futures back to challengers.

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

Berkshire are the new Men's County Cup Winter champions and not only that, they are also solely propping up the ATP Race Top 100 for Britain:

92T Neil Pauffley 19 points
100T Marcus Willis 18 points

-- Edited by Born2WinTennis on Thursday 1st of December 2016 11:17:37 AM

the addict · Tennis legend

Interview published today

www.heraldscotland.com/sport/15060927.Exclusive_Interview__With_Wimbledon_sensation_Marcus_Willis__aka_the___39_Willbomb__39___as_he_gets_back_to_basics_in_Glasgow/

Vandenburg · Futures level

Born2WinTennis wrote:
Berkshire are the new Men's County Cup Winter champions and not only that, they are also solely propping up the ATP Race Top 100 for Britain:

92T Neil Pauffley 19 points
100T Marcus Willis 18 points

-- Edited by Born2WinTennis on Thursday 1st of December 2016 11:17:37 AM

What a load of tosh.

indiana · Tennis legend

Vandenburg wrote:
Born2WinTennis wrote:
Berkshire are the new Men's County Cup Winter champions and not only that, they are also solely propping up the ATP Race Top 100 for Britain:

92T Neil Pauffley 19 points
100T Marcus Willis 18 points

-- Edited by Born2WinTennis on Thursday 1st of December 2016 11:17:37 AM
What a load of tosh.

I would imagine that it was absolutely true when it was written on December 1st.

the addict · Tennis legend

Marcus Willis @Willbomb90 14m14 minutes ago

Martha May Willis was born yesterday at 18.32 weighing 6'13 Mum and Baby are doing great. Dad is the proudest man around