Week 31 - WTA ($250K) International - Citi Open Washington, USA Hard

Rich · Lower Club Player

RE: Week 31 - WTA ($250K) International - Citi Open Washington, USA Hard

tony_orient · ATP qualifying

TennisLover wrote:
kundalini wrote:
Against a good player on a fast court, I think Naomi should deploy 2 first serves rather than using her standard 2nd serve, and just try to accept a high number of dfs. Of course, high risk because Naomi often gets so down on herself during matches. But a huge number of unreturned serves is her best hope of making the match competitive.

Couldn't agree more.

There's a simple way to work out if this is the right tactic.

Naomi's actual % won on second serve yesterday was 45%

If she did a second 'first' serve again win % would be: % won on first serve (84%) * % first serves in (56%) = 47%

So pretty close - this equation doesn't factor any extra rhythm Naomi would get on serve or Gajdosova on return, but I can't put a number on these.

indiana · Tennis legend

Thing is some of these figs tend to be very variable with Naomi ( it's great that she's basically served so well for 3 successive matches this week, though yesterday clearly that first serve % in is bringing first / first down - as you say would first / first bring more rythym to either / both players or maybe DFs get to her ).

It's an interesting one and to me very far from clear.

PS : And continuing to think aloud, apart from Naomi's variability is the variability between returners ( quite apart from each's own variability ) such as better returners, particularly say of slower second serves.

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 5th of August 2015 05:09:32 PM

tony_orient · ATP qualifying

Yes I expect that stat would vary hugely from match to match - but it would be interesting if a coach worked it out after a set and there was say a +20% differential towards doing two first serves and the coach told the player to do this off the back of that.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Surely the thing to is to mix up the second serves but to have a low threshold for going for it. An element of surprise has to be maintained.

Julia Carrot · All-time great

Chirico currently getting the better of Cornet. Took the first set anyway. So not just Hev finding her a tough opponent.

TennisLover · Strong Club Player

Julia Carrot wrote:
Chirico currently getting the better of Cornet. Took the first set anyway. So not just Hev finding her a tough opponent.

Very easy to see why she beat Heather and holding her own against Cornet. She is playing proper aggressive dictating tennis - (the way I like it )

Spectator · All-time great

And she won: 7-5 4-6 7-6 (4). It is a measure of consolation, isn't it. Not that I'm worried about Ms Watson anyway - she does tend to have the odd low ... but to bounce back.

kundalini · Specialist Reporter + Intermediate Club Player

Naomi 2-1* 8/8 first serves, 4 aces, had an early bp chance on EM's serve but it was saved

*2-2

3-2* Naomi misses her first serve after starting the match 9/9 and loses the point, later she loses a point behind her first serve, despite all this she holds to 30, aces now 6

*3-3 EM holds to 40, winning several 2nd serve points

3-4* Naomi saves 1 bp but is broken, with 3 points lost when she got her first serve in; didn't see that coming

*3-5 Naomi had 15-30 2nd serve but EM won the next 3 points

4-5* Naomi lands 5 first serves, holding to 15

Rain delay with EM 30-15

4-6

Naomi won plenty of points on return in that set but didn't bunch them together enough to get the break. Hard to criticise Naomi's serving, 91% first serves in play, winning 77% behind her first serves with 7 aces.

-- Edited by kundalini on Thursday 6th of August 2015 08:54:13 PM

Julia Carrot · All-time great

What a shame there is no stream. Would love to see this.

tony_orient · ATP qualifying

Julia Carrot wrote:
What a shame there is no stream. Would love to see this.

Me too - was just getting ready to watch. Not often the No 1 seed is not on a televised court in any tournament.

Julia Carrot · All-time great

There was an injury break earlier. Now a very long pause between points. Either scoreboards stuck or a retirement on the cards methinks?

As usual, got it wrong. Rain !!!!!!

-- Edited by Julia Carrot on Thursday 6th of August 2015 08:47:54 PM

kundalini · Specialist Reporter + Intermediate Club Player

1-0* Naomi wins her first point behind her second serve as she holds to 15

*1-1

2-1* Naomi saves bp with an ace, her 9th, immediately followed by her 10th

*2-2 EM up to 5 aces now

3-2* wot no aces ?

*3-3 easy hold for EM

4-3* Naomi's first df in a rare game full of 2nd serves, only one 1st serve landed

*4-4 Naomi struggling to win points on return in this set

5-4* very quiet on the aces front, another df

*5-5 easy love hold for EM

6-5* 2 more aces and a df, making the current total 12 aces, 3 dfs

6-6 EM holds to 40

2-7 two more aces from Naomi but failed to win any return points in the tiebreak

Overall a super serving performance but not quite good enough to take a set.

-- Edited by kundalini on Thursday 6th of August 2015 09:46:01 PM

tony_orient · ATP qualifying

Some incredible serving stats from Naomi so far - 82% first serves in and won 75% behind those, with 10 aces and no double faults.

Would be good enough on its own to beat most players she plays, today it's keeping her in the match against the world no. 12

Priesty · Challenger level

Down 0-2* in second set TB.....