Week 31 - ITF ($10K) - El Espinar, Spain Hard

Strongbow · All-time great

RE: Week 31 - ITF ($10K) - El Espinar, Spain Hard

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Well, if we happen to have the good fortune of four players in the MD it's not THAT surprising that two meet in the first round.

And Beth hasn't won her match yet (and probably isn't more than 50:50 with the bookies - haven't looked but her ranking is hardly cast iron) so that's hardly a given.

I'd say it's a pretty good draw - Laura gets a Q, Beth avoids a seed, Fran gets a 'true' ranked player (at best), and Jazzamay draws a seed who's lost her batch of matches (in Belgium) - seems pretty good to me....

TennisLover · Strong Club Player

That's another way of looking at it, which is fine but four Brits out of 32 with that type of draw is just not right. Plus one cannot help but laugh at the doubles draw as well, where they are all packed in the same half. By the way, what is the rule for draws? If it is random - which is doubtful, then fine.

-- Edited by TennisLover on Tuesday 4th of August 2015 04:25:56 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

In theory, and in practice as far as I've ever seen, it is 100% random.

And I think it is only really the fan base who look at it from a national point of view.

i.e. Naomi and Tara probably don;t like getting drawn against Conny Perrin because they play team tennis together, EWS has various French 'best friends' that she'd rather not have to play for the umpteenth time..... Fran was probably perfectly happy with her draw v Jazzamay (decent chance of winning).... AND Beth is indeed losing so that whole R2 issue may well fizzle into nothing....from the point of view of each girl, I still don't think it could have been much better....

TennisLover · Strong Club Player

Fair points CD. I for one don't think draws are 100% random - not because of a national point of view .

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Your scepticism re the draw may well be right . ..

I've certainly seen a ton of money tournament draws being done with specific objects in mind (rigged, you could say). The aim of not putting players from the same clubs together (if it can be avoided) is open and transparent, but there are plenty of times that the tournament umpire (who is quite often the club coach or, at least, a club member) will try and jig it to give the local club players an 'easier' draw.

The ITFs I've seen have been done randomly (based on some seen publicly, i.e. public draws, and some just based on results - i.e. no one would have rigged it like that if they were going to rig it).

But that's certainly not to say it doesn't happen . . .

indiana · Tennis legend

I'd very very much doubt that the draws are not random. These draws are indicative of nothing other than, probably maybe to some, some annoying coming togethers.

There are so many many draws and so many scenarios that things like this will and do pop up at times. It happens randomly. It never happening and draws continually having nationalities spread "nicely" through the draw would be very strange.

And I agree with what CD was saying about it probably more being a pretty good singles draw than anything else. The R1 draw looks to me pretty much as he says and as I indicated earlier we are not dealing with a collection of players that have look poised to be otherwise marching through the draw.

It may only be bad in the sense some Brits probably don't like travelling and then playing other Brits, but for overall British draw progress I just don't see it as bad.

-- Edited by indiana on Tuesday 4th of August 2015 06:29:21 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

And Beth was knocked out, 7-6(2) 6-3 ....

indiana · Tennis legend

On this week's updated rankings :

R1 :
(4) Fran Stephenson WR 616 beat Jazzamay Drew WR 864 3-6 6-2 6-1
(6) Laura Deigman WR 691 beat (Q) Veronica Saucedo (ARG) UNR (CH 1068 02/12) 6-4 6-1
Sarah Beth Askew WR 774 lost to Alba Carrillo Marin (ESP) WR 991 (CH 919 05/15) 7-6 (2) 6-3 ( as per amended ITF - i.e. agreeing with the good folk here )

R2 :
(4) Fran Stephenson WR 616 vs (Q) Marina Bassols Ribera (ESP) UNR, aged 15
(6) Laura Deigman WR 691 vs Alba Carrillo Marin (ESP) WR 991 (CH 919 05/15)

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 5th of August 2015 04:11:34 PM

Strongbow · All-time great

Sarah Beth lost her singles 6-7 3-6 cry

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Draws are random and 2 players have to be present and sign that they've witnessed it. The ones I've seen allocate each player a number; place the 1st 2 seeds; then put the numbers for seeds 3 and 4 into a bag and a player draws these out as to which goes top and which goes bottom half and so on with other seeds where there is a choice of position; then the other players are drawn and placed in empty slots working down from the top of the draw. If Qs aren't known at the time, they are placed in the draw as Q when drawn and then all the Q names are subsequently drawn and placed in the Q slots starting from the top of the draw.

Junior ITF events are different In that once seedings have been done, players of different nationalities have to be kept apart for as long as possible. The draws are done by a computer program but again have to be witnessed by 2 players.

TennisLover · Strong Club Player

The Optimist wrote:
Draws are random and 2 players have to be present and sign that they've witnessed it. The ones I've seen allocate each player a number; place the 1st 2 seeds; then put the numbers for seeds 3 and 4 into a bag and a player draws these out as to which goes top and which goes bottom half and so on with other seeds where there is a choice of position; then the other players are drawn and placed in empty slots working down from the top of the draw. If Qs aren't known at the time, they are placed in the draw as Q when drawn and then all the Q names are subsequently drawn and placed in the Q slots starting from the top of the draw.
Junior ITF events are different In that once seedings have been done, players of different nationalities have to be kept apart for as long as possible. The draws are done by a computer program but again have to be witnessed by 2 players.

Thanks for the info on how it is ("should") be done always. But rules are not always followed as prescribed.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Fran currently getting beaten up by the 15 year-old ..

2-6 0-2 ...

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Wednesday 5th of August 2015 09:45:42 AM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Fran retired at 2-6 1-5 down.

indiana · Tennis legend

Bah. If Fran hadn't had to go through that all Brit battle in R1, who knows ...

Seriously, I do hope that it's nothing serious.