Week 29 - Challenger ($50,000) - LG&T Tennis Challenger, Binghamton, NY, USA (hard)

goldenboy · Club Coach

RE: Week 29 - Challenger ($50,000) - LG&T Tennis Challenger, Binghamton, NY, USA (hard)

thejester · Satellite level

Yes I think he would have been down as an alt but having missed the cut was obviously too busy making the final here to sign in for qualies at Atlanta

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

The other important fact about today's win is that he has more than covered off the points that he will lose on Monday. He has a net gain of 8 for next week already and hopefully, more to come.

After this Kyle has only 32 more points to come off in the next 3 months (17 in Aug, 15 in Sept, 0 in Oct) so a great chance to make that Top 100 break though. Of course a win tomorrow would already cover off those additional 32 points.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

If Atlanta is out, any chance of a WC at the Lexington Challenger ?

Edit

To answer my own question, clearly not. The draw is out. Wardy is top seed. Ed has got in and Liam is also seeded at 7.

-- Edited by Bob in Spain on Saturday 25th of July 2015 09:40:04 PM

thejester · Satellite level

Bob in Spain wrote:
The other important fact about today's win is that he has more than covered off the points that he will lose on Monday. He has a net gain of 8 for next week already and hopefully, more to come.

After this Kyle has only 32 more points to come off in the next 3 months (17 in Aug, 15 in Sept, 0 in Oct) so a great chance to make that Top 100 break though. Of course a win tomorrow would already cover off those additional 32 points.

It's certainly looking good for Kyle to make it into the Top 100 by the end of the year, and possibly higher. I don't think he has any 'big' points coming off until his 48 points for making the Yokohoma final, which I believer is November (?)

So a win tomorrow would put him in a very strong position. He'll already be in the Top 100 in the race from making the final, and a win would take him into the 80's in the race. Great stuff smile

steven · Tennis legend

The last Brit to make the singles final here before Kyle was a certain Andy Murray, ten years ago next month. He beat Falla to win the second of his two Challenger titles.

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

Stircrazy wrote:
SF: (WC/1) Kyle Edmund WR 113 defeated (Q) Sekou Bangoura (USA) WR 535 by 6-3 7-6(4)
******
Final: (WC/1) Kyle Edmund WR 113 vs (2) Bjorn Fratangelo (USA) WR 125

Well done Kyle biggrin

GL in the final

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Very excited about Kyles success so far this week. He has looked comfortable throughout yet his first serve percentage ( ie completing a successful first ) has been 5-15%, sometimes worse on a set by set basis, less than his opponents. He would obviously be more vulnerable against better players who would feed off a diet of second serves; here he has still been dominant.

I don't really know how to interpret this. The optimist in me makes me think he may challenge Andy in being one of the UKs best clay court players of the modern era. The realist, that improving his first service percentage is a priority area for development, particularly given so much tennis is on grass and hard where the serve predominates. You have to make the most of what is essentially a free hit.

The second serve I find one of the most fascinating areas in tennis, Kyle's is obviously no gimme but it will be tested as with ranking progression he plays better players more often. As one of the most important areas of the game, particularly at the super elite level where margins are so tight, the balance between going for it, (a no when your first serve percentage is 40%) and something more subtle is a technical but also psychological and game management dilemma.

Against the bigger servers it is the return of serve that set the very top players apart from the likes of Kevin Anderson. He is probably the most mobile of the guys with a significant height advantage allowing not only a first serve consistently at 134mph but a consistent back up heavy default second at 120mph-125mph. He is still no match over five sets for the super elite (Fed, Djovic and Andy) where a first serve of 130mph plus is eyeballs out and theit stock first serve more closely resembles Anderson's second but the drop off to their second only incremental. When they play each other it is the quality of the second serve that to my eyes is often the difference, ie the free hit for the returner.

I am looking forward to tonight again it has been a great week regardless of the outcome. Like early 2014 where he dominated the futures events he played, Kyle is Noel playing to his seeding and beginning to do the same at challenger level. Better still is that there are plenty of areas for development that make you think his attitude and commitment will allow him to do the same at the ATP250 level over the next 12-18 months.

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Sunday 26th of July 2015 07:59:52 AM

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

I don't think we should over fixate on Kyle's first serve percentage. He has just had a couple of off games in the regard. In the first two matches here in Lexington, his percentage was between 60% and 70%.

Just checked. According to the ATP site his percentage was 61% in the semi as well. So he has only had the one bad match serving wise.

-- Edited by Bob in Spain on Sunday 26th of July 2015 09:28:13 AM

Oakland2002 · All-time great

And to survive them is a great achievement, your probably right it is a question of general consistency as a fundamental difference in talent will not bring you through against the less talented but more consistent 24-34 year olds that fill the ranks between 32-100

indiana · Tennis legend

I'd suggest that it's Kyle's second serve that's the real potential issue.

Kyle's career first serve % is showing on the ATP site as 61%, Roger Federer's is 62%.

Andy has done remarkably well with a career first serve % of 58 % and a relatively poor and often very slow second serve. I used to really go on about that second serve. Over time I'd say it has got more penetrating, but it has been a career long relative liability. Hopefully Kyle's second serve can really develop.

For info, re career first serve %s, Djokovic's is 65% and Nadal's 69%.

I think it's probably just ATP tour & Slams for these stats, so Kyle's sample hugely less ( his career aces are shown as 72 ), but I would guess that 61% is not far off his general first serve %, so a figure it would be good to push up a bit, but I'd come back to the second serve.

Actually just thinking further, for Kyle so far, ATP tour / Slams would to date be a more pressurised environment for him, so his % could well be a bit higher elsewhere and one would expect it to improve at ATP tour & Slam level.

-- Edited by indiana on Sunday 26th of July 2015 10:18:16 AM

freerider · Futures level

indiana wrote:
I'd suggest that it's Kyle's second serve that's the real potential issue.

Kyle's career first serve % is showing on the ATP site as 61%, Roger Federer's is 62%.

Andy has done remarkably well with a career first serve % of 58 % and a relatively poor and often very slow second serve. I used to really go on about that second serve. Over time I'd say it has got more penetrating, but it has been a career long relative liability. Hopefully Kyle's second serve can really develop.

For info, re career first serve %s, Djokovic's is 65% and Nadal's 69%.

I think it's probably just ATP tour & Slams for these stats, so Kyle's sample hugely less ( his career aces are shown as 72 ), but I would guess that 61% is not far off his general first serve %, so a figure it would be good to push up a bit, but I'd come back to the second serve.
Actually just thinking further, for Kyle so far, ATP tour / Slams would to date be a more pressurised environment for him, so his % could well be a bit higher elsewhere and one would expect it to improve at ATP tour & Slam level.

-- Edited by indiana on Sunday 26th of July 2015 10:18:16 AM

interesting stats - where can you see these?

indiana · Tennis legend

I'm on my mobile, and just got the mobile ATP rankings list up, selected the player from the list and selected 'more' from his page, which gave one option as 'player stats'.

But I'm pretty sure you can get similar by getting up the player pages on the normal ATP site ( there also certainly used to be a general stats page which ranked ATP players in the various serve and return categories and I assume is still available ).

freerider · Futures level

indiana wrote:
I'm on my mobile, and just got the mobile ATP rankings list up, selected the player from the list and selected 'more' from his page, which gave one option as 'player stats'.

But I'm pretty sure you can get similar by getting up the player pages on the normal ATP site ( there also certainly used to be a general stats page which ranked ATP players in the various serve and return categories and I assume is still available ).

That will keep me entertained thanks for that

Jan · Hall of fame

Kyle warming up