Week 25 - WTA Premier $666K - Eastbourne, UK grass

wimdledont · Challenger level

RE: Week 25 - WTA Premier $666K - Eastbourne, UK grass

Grachka · County player

I was watching the match, and Jocelyn had to retire due to illness.

PaulM · Tennis legend

Heather completely flat again. Getting a bit worrying that she's like this more often than not.

philwrig · Hall of fame

I'll chip in with Jo, and this is without seeing any of her matches this week, but I've masses of her matches live and on TV.

1. Last year she played the best tennis of her year here, she should have won her R2 match but tightened up. So clearly Eastbourne does bring out the best in her.
2. Injury free now, and she is a player that's been held back massively over the years.
3. Much more consistent, certainly noticed that at Notts.
4. I think playing more doubles has helped her play around the net.
5. Finally if she can sort out even 50% of her mental frailties, she to me should be a top 50 if staying injury free.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

I wonder if anyone predicted Jo to be GB number 1 at year end? The way things are going it's certainly a possibility

tony_orient · ATP qualifying

Jaggy1876 wrote:
I wonder if anyone predicted Jo to be GB number 1 at year end? The way things are going it's certainly a possibility

She is certainly playing the best tennis of any GB woman at the moment but, this week not withstanding, I would still back Heather to accumulate more points over a season.

Jo is playing the best tennis of her life but there is still a big difference between doing it for a few weeks and week in week out over a longer period. Hopefully Jo can do that, but for now let's just enjoy her form on the grass courts.

AliBlahBlah · All-time great

nicofrance wrote:
Sadly my first post doesn't start on a happy note with a very disappointing performance from Heather Watson, too many unforced errors and she looked unhappy throughout.

I doubt we'll ever see her ranking get above the 40's, inconsistency and a lack of big weapons means she's destined to remain marooned between the 40's and 60's in terms of ranking.

This year her mental fragility has been highlighted with too many losses from winning positions. For British tennis fans all eyes are on Laura Robson to see if she can get back to her form of 2013, even then there was plenty of room for improvement but she has the big weapons to get into the top 20 if she's free from injury.

Welcome nicofrance

I disagree with you a bit about Heather. Yes, she seems in a pretty low ebb right now, and, for reasons that aren't entirely clear, her renowned 'mojo' and grit seems to have somewhat deserted her, but I think she'll be one of those players that just has everything click at some point, and all the things she's been working on will come good, for equally unfathomable reasons.

I can easily see her some day getting around the top 25, and there abouts, for extended periods, but it may not, indeed probably won't be, for 3-4 years.

gazzpash · Club Coach

Great result from Jo and hopefully another step towards top 100 again. Proud to have her on our books

TennisLover · Strong Club Player

AliBlahBlah wrote:
nicofrance wrote:
Sadly my first post doesn't start on a happy note with a very disappointing performance from Heather Watson, too many unforced errors and she looked unhappy throughout.

I doubt we'll ever see her ranking get above the 40's, inconsistency and a lack of big weapons means she's destined to remain marooned between the 40's and 60's in terms of ranking.

This year her mental fragility has been highlighted with too many losses from winning positions. For British tennis fans all eyes are on Laura Robson to see if she can get back to her form of 2013, even then there was plenty of room for improvement but she has the big weapons to get into the top 20 if she's free from injury.
Welcome nicofrance
I disagree with you a bit about Heather. Yes, she seems in a pretty low ebb right now, and, for reasons that aren't entirely clear, her renowned 'mojo' and grit seems to have somewhat deserted her, but I think she'll be one of those players that just has everything click at some point, and all the things she's been working on will come good, for equally unfathomable reasons.
I can easily see her some day getting around the top 25, and there abouts, for extended periods, but it may not, indeed probably won't be, for 3-4 years.

You are assuming others will be standing still in those 3-4 years waiting for her to do so? Heather just hasn't got the game to be top 25 let alone for extended periods.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

So interesting to read and hear all the info about the changes Joko's new Spanish coaching team have implemented... Her forehand is practically unrecognisable from the previous highly quirky/techinically dodgy shot. Just makes you wonder what the 'blitherin' idiots' were doing at the NTC beforehand, letting her go on and not dealing with it?????

A real joy to watch, Joko - so pleased for you

Vamos !

TennisLover · Strong Club Player

Coup Droit wrote:
So interesting to read and hear all the info about the changes Joko's new Spanish coaching team have implemented... Her forehand is practically unrecognisable from the previous highly quirky/techinically dodgy shot. Just makes you wonder what the 'blitherin' idiots' were doing at the NTC beforehand, letting her go on and not dealing with it?????

A real joy to watch, Joko - so pleased for you Vamos !

Don't get me started with the NTC CD :).

AliBlahBlah · All-time great

TennisLover wrote:
AliBlahBlah wrote:
[...]
I disagree with you a bit about Heather. Yes, she seems in a pretty low ebb right now, and, for reasons that aren't entirely clear, her renowned 'mojo' and grit seems to have somewhat deserted her, but I think she'll be one of those players that just has everything click at some point, and all the things she's been working on will come good, for equally unfathomable reasons.
I can easily see her some day getting around the top 25, and there abouts, for extended periods, but it may not, indeed probably won't be, for 3-4 years.
You are assuming others will be standing still in those 3-4 years waiting for her to do so? Heather just hasn't got the game to be top 25 let alone for extended periods.

Not at all. I'm understanding that for all bar a few exceptional players (hello Steffi, Serena, Martina etc) form is fluctuating, and to a degree cyclical.

Some players reach peaks when young that they never again scale (e.g. Alexandra Stevenson, Tamira Paszek), others bloom late and have great periods later in their career (e.g. Li Na, Marion Bartoli). Others still see the hard work of many years finally reaping rewards (e.g Sara Errani, Lucie Safarova, Ekaterina Makarova) - players who have made the top 10, or 'top x' despite almost every casual fan saying they would never get there. It is in to this latter category that I am placing Hev.

Now, the raw material for Heather to date may not have been as impressive as the three examples I gave, perhaps all of them were ahead of Heather's curve at a similar point in their careers. Which is exactly why I'm not suggesting, at the moment, that Heather will equal their achievements and make the top 10. Top 25 though? Yes, that's reasonable.

As other players form varies and ebbs and flows, a player who is on their 'up swing' of form and playing the best tennis of their career can have extended periods in excess of their previous career highs. Yes, other younger players will move past them and some top players powers will wane and slot in around them but the overall effect is still the same. The Roberta Vinci's & Barbora Strycova's, Varvara Lepchenko's & Peng Shuai's of the world - all reached CH of 11-25.

I don't see why, given the same time and application Heather can't achieve the same prolonged ranking as some of those, and others besides.

TMH · Futures qualifying

AliBlahBlah wrote:
TennisLover wrote:
AliBlahBlah wrote:
[...]
I disagree with you a bit about Heather. Yes, she seems in a pretty low ebb right now, and, for reasons that aren't entirely clear, her renowned 'mojo' and grit seems to have somewhat deserted her, but I think she'll be one of those players that just has everything click at some point, and all the things she's been working on will come good, for equally unfathomable reasons.
I can easily see her some day getting around the top 25, and there abouts, for extended periods, but it may not, indeed probably won't be, for 3-4 years.
You are assuming others will be standing still in those 3-4 years waiting for her to do so? Heather just hasn't got the game to be top 25 let alone for extended periods.
Not at all. I'm understanding that for all bar a few exceptional players (hello Steffi, Serena, Martina etc) form is fluctuating, and to a degree cyclical.
Some players reach peaks when young that they never again scale (e.g. Alexandra Stevenson, Tamira Paszek), others bloom late and have great periods later in their career (e.g. Li Na, Marion Bartoli). Others still see the hard work of many years finally reaping rewards (e.g Sara Errani, Lucie Safarova, Ekaterina Makarova) - players who have made the top 10, or 'top x' despite almost every casual fan saying they would never get there. It is in to this latter category that I am placing Hev.
Now, the raw material for Heather to date may not have been as impressive as the three examples I gave, perhaps all of them were ahead of Heather's curve at a similar point in their careers. Which is exactly why I'm not suggesting, at the moment, that Heather will equal their achievements and make the top 10. Top 25 though? Yes, that's reasonable.
As other players form varies and ebbs and flows, a player who is on their 'up swing' of form and playing the best tennis of their career can have extended periods in excess of their previous career highs. Yes, other younger players will move past them and some top players powers will wane and slot in around them but the overall effect is still the same. The Roberta Vinci's & Barbora Strycova's, Varvara Lepchenko's & Peng Shuai's of the world - all reached CH of 11-25.
I don't see why, given the same time and application Heather can't achieve the same prolonged ranking as some of those, and others besides.

I agree. I have never understood ranking 'limits' that are placed on players. Many players develop a weapon later in their career, many go through their entire careers without one but still far surpass what anyone predicted of them through a combination of sheer hard work, improved mental fortitude, superior fitness or just superb retrieval ability.

Sometimes - as you rightly point out - players merely hit a purple patch at one point or another in their career or perhaps its merely a case of being in the right place, at the right time, in the right tournament and - however briefly - surge up the rankings to a new career high previously believed unattainable.

I could just about understand putting a 'limit' on a player coming to the end of their career (although even now players are often hitting new CHs in their 30s), but to do so on still developing players in their early 20s (or often younger, as I have seen before on this board) is frankly absurd.

I really don't see why it's beyond the realms of possibility that a player who broke the top 50 at the age of 20 will never break the top 40, ever. That's not to say that Heather will definitely break the top 40, 30, 25 or what you, but to completely and utterly rule it out just seems ludicrous.

-- Edited by TMH on Thursday 25th of June 2015 12:00:53 AM

indiana · Tennis legend

I think Heather's CH of WR 38 after Hobart this year was breaking the top 40

How high she can get for any extended period is of course an unknown, but the clear policy of trying to become more positive in her play should help her upward possibilities. Unfortunately her form ( and rather worrying mood ) has been at times a bit low in recent months.

I would have thought getting into the 20s in ranking terms though was very possible.

Spectator · All-time great

Ms Watson has beaten people's expectations all her life - long may it continue. So lovely to see Ms Konta having such a run of success. Well done to her - and long may that continue, too! And thank you, Grachka, for the info re: Ms Rae. Hoping that it's a brief illness.