British performance tennis..............what now?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

RE: British performance tennis..............what now?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

And also to Geometry PR in Bath who have sponsored very promising Eden Richardson, which will cover some of her overseas trips.

www.nowbath.co.uk/news/business-news/geometry-pr-supports-rising-bath-tennis-talent-62068/

EddietheEagle · County player

Otto wrote:
Ok, I wont rake over old ground as we know what we all think. So let me follow the direction we are going in.

Many years ago, When I played German league, the club that I played for (in fact as I found out, with most German clubs) had a very enterprising set up.
As a regular member of the club, half your membership fee went to the clubs performance programme. This enabled them to operate as a mini federation. Then each player in the programme would sign a contract to play for the club. It went further than this as bigger clubs would buy the contracts of players from smaller clubs if they thought they were good.

Later I mentioned this to committee members of some of the big clubs in the South East area, only to watch their faces go pale with horror.

What changes do you believe are required to make our own domestic competitions more attractive?

Otto · Social player

EddietheEagle wrote:
Otto wrote:
Ok, I wont rake over old ground as we know what we all think. So let me follow the direction we are going in.

Many years ago, When I played German league, the club that I played for (in fact as I found out, with most German clubs) had a very enterprising set up.
As a regular member of the club, half your membership fee went to the clubs performance programme. This enabled them to operate as a mini federation. Then each player in the programme would sign a contract to play for the club. It went further than this as bigger clubs would buy the contracts of players from smaller clubs if they thought they were good.

Later I mentioned this to committee members of some of the big clubs in the South East area, only to watch their faces go pale with horror.
What changes do you believe are required to make our own domestic competitions more attractive?

First I think we have to establish what we want to achieve from the tournaments. I hope we want the tournaments to play their part in producing top hundred ranked British players. In order to do that all the tournaments have to be as strong as possible. And that doesn't just mean the top level events such as BTs and Futures, it goes all the way down to mini tennis tournaments.

So why does stronger tournaments mean better players? Well the better the event the better you have to be to win it. Obviously it's not that simple and other factors come into it.

Actually the level of competition up to U14 is really very good and has been for some time. You can see that reflected in the international team titles won over the years. After this age group we begin to struggle. Good itf players still pop up but there is not the same depth, and post 18, well you know the story.

The simple fact here is the the countries with the biggest base of pro players have the most tournaments with the most prize money. So the bigger the base the higher the peak.

I know that most people here (including myself) take issue with giving money to players that will not make the grade. However these players must exist and keep playing so that the younger players still on course can try and beat them. In my experience this is vital and the big tennis countries realise this.

Just imagine,

Having the most TE and ITF events in Europe.

A bigger money tour than France Italy or Germany

The most Futures and 10k in Europe

A Team league higher level than France, Italy or Germany.

'But we don't have enough players to fill all this' I hear you say. Just watch them come out of the woodwork. The way they started to when BT money went up and Petchey increased the number of Futures.

The LTA has the means to do this but will lose influence and control if they do.

EddietheEagle · County player

I agree with what you say. It's a message that needs to be very strongly put to the LTA so that some form of debate is started around building a better and more attractive competition structure. Much as I laud individual efforts from the likes of individuals like Born to Win (and we need tons more of that at the club level), it does require the enabling support of the federation as far as the overall game plan goes.

The LTA's recent preoccupation with its superfluous national training centre will, paradoxically enough, come to be regarded as representing the very lowest period in British tennis history, the absolute nadir, as far as player development goes.

I'm curious as to your last remarks and how this is countered. I remember Tony Hawks muttering similar sentiment about the LTA effectively trying to hinder his Tennis for Free efforts, rather than help. There are various old farts and blazers still hanging around who should properly be hung out to dry.

janeInScotland · Social player

Management Today June 2015 had a feature article about tennis. Contents page: "Advantage Tennis: The game is a marketer's dream and champions earn more than footballers. But the UK sport has got to invest more in new players to keep growing, says Adam Gale." Article at: http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/news/1347692/tennis-becomes-global-player/

Info/comment about Wimbledon, then the last third is about LTA & GBR tennis. Probably nothing new - but interesting that its given 4 pages in a publication about Management.

Otto · Social player

EddietheEagle wrote:

I'm curious as to your last remarks and how this is countered. I remember Tony Hawks muttering similar sentiment about the LTA effectively trying to hinder his Tennis for Free efforts, rather than help. There are various old farts and blazers still hanging around who should properly be hung out to dry.

For the last 20 years I could never understand why the LTA didn't just copy the tournament structure of France or Germany, two successful countries with a similar socio-economical situation to us.

Then a few years ago I was based at the NTC for a year working with national training. Very quickly i realised that the LTA was not one united voice but really many factions all stabbing each other in the back. The atmosphere was awkward with everyone worried about their jobs.

I have been preaching tournament structures for decades and when talking to Steven Martens before he left to go back to Belgium, he told me that he agreed with me but said it would never happen in the UK, inferring, producing players was desirable but only when created through the programmes they were spending millions on.

The problem being that if all you had to do was have the best national tournament structure in the word it would render 50% of the jobs at Roehampton pointless.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Not a very informative article but it implies that Katy Dunne is not finding the performance set-ups, nor finance, that she needs in the UK:

www.hemeltoday.co.uk/sport/tennis/katy-seeking-sponsorship-as-she-gears-up-for-another-shot-at-wimbledon-1-6807634

Oakland2002 · All-time great

I honestly think you are missing the point, as they say in basketball you can't teach height. The opportunity is still there in girls sport to rectify a fundamental flaw that is probably not salvageable in the men's game.

Keep working with what you have got and the outcomes will not alter drastically

The problem lies in that out best 12 year olds at tennis (and as Naomi cav States in her blog the best at knowing how to win at tennis at 12) I would argue are just not our best 12 year olds at sport, and there lies the problem as the girls quoted by Naomi from other countries who kept playing the way they were playing at 12 and went on to be stars were.

Where good technique can out perform athleticism at junior level the system falls down when the elite athletes with good technique are the elite professionals.<br /><br />

Encouraging and facilitating mass participation for kids age 8-12 in and competition between state junior schools with strong links to clubs is the only way forward. Dads still want their daughters to play tennis over and above football, the LTA need to act now because that window is about to be slammed shut by the FA.

EddietheEagle · County player

Does she need an academy? Katy Dunne could hit with any number of men to learn how to cope with the heavier spin and higher ball speeds she'll face on the WTA tour.

baxi2 · Lower Club Player

Good article in the Express !

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/598049/Tennis-has-disdain-for-the-poor-and-only-Andy-Murray-means-it-s-more-popular-than-curling

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

EddietheEagle wrote:
I agree with what you say. It's a message that needs to be very strongly put to the LTA so that some form of debate is started around building a better and more attractive competition structure. Much as I laud individual efforts from the likes of individuals like Born to Win (and we need tons more of that at the club level), it does require the enabling support of the federation as far as the overall game plan goes.

The LTA's recent preoccupation with its superfluous national training centre will, paradoxically enough, come to be regarded as representing the very lowest period in British tennis history, the absolute nadir, as far as player development goes.

I'm curious as to your last remarks and how this is countered. I remember Tony Hawks muttering similar sentiment about the LTA effectively trying to hinder his Tennis for Free efforts, rather than help. There are various old farts and blazers still hanging around who should properly be hung out to dry.

I very recently suggested to Rob Dearing head of participation at the LTA that I believe they should make Aegon Team Tennis mandatory for every LTA registered club. I believe this would make a truly national and very well supported National League, with benefits in terms of prize money, sponsorship etc. As it stands there are currently far too many political issues that will prevent this from ever happening:

1. Internal politics at the LTA

2. Politics between the LTA and every County Association

3. Politics between District Tennis Associations and both LTA and County Associations.

Every club plays at District association level, less play at County level and far far less play at LTA Aegon Team Tennis level in terms of Adult age groups. A large volume of clubs (mainly 2-3 court clubs) are not LTA registered so the LTA have no jurisdiction over them. Almost all of the clubs in this country are run by an older demographic (40-60 years old) who mainly have one priority...the District Doubles League and Social Tennis and really who could blame them 85% of their membership fees will come from this age group, so no wonder it's their priority.

Remember players aged 16-36 are a huge minority in this country, I think the key question is how to stop these young people giving up the sport. Why do they give up and what can we do to prevent them giving up? If the answer is a better, more relevant, local and enjoyable competition structure (for all standards) then we should pull out all the stops to provide one. If the answer is not this, then maybe these players would give up anyway!

EddietheEagle · County player

Another cutting-edge appointment from the LTA in its ongoing search for salvation.

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-3216413/Former-British-No1-Tim-Henman-line-consultancy-role-choose-LTA-supremo.html

christ · Futures level

Born2WinTennis wrote:
Why do they give up and what can we do to prevent them giving up?

Well here is (part of) the $64,000 question.

Everyone seems to think that they have the answer, and suggests/ demands/ spends their (or the LTA's) money on (depending on their position) attempting to enact that answer. Unfortunately there are as many answers as there are individuals in that age group, all of them different, and (I guess) most of them conflicting.

Question: Is the role of the LTA to help ensure that tennis is a mass participation sport, with open access to as many as possible, or is it solely to produce another Wimbledon Champion/ World No.1? Personally, I feel that it is the former, not the latter. I would rather see 20 million people participating in "the District Doubles League and Social Tennis" instead of one world number 1. My understanding was that the only reason that the LTA would want to produce champions is to increase the profile of the sport, to increase participation: but what if these two objectives are mutually exclusive: which one takes priority? (I vote for the masses, but maybe that is just me)

EddietheEagle · County player

The objectives are not mutually exclusive. They are self-supportive and inextricably tied together in my opinion although I do very much share your sentiment regarding mass participation. That should always remain the major priority. The problem we have now is that the game as a whole has largely gone down the pan, taking the elite side of the game with it. It is significant to note that Henman himself has hardly bothered with tennis in recent years (apart from his comfortable sinecure at the All England mollycoddling clay court ATP players so they no longer refer to grass as only 'fit for cows').

Unless you have some other recognised tennis body responsible for the recruitment and preparation of players for Davis Cup ties you're stuck with the tennis governing body as is.

What the beleaguered LTA chief executive is now doing with his latest appointment is simply covering his backside. The man is paid x hundred thousand pounds a year and he has to appoint others to find a 'performance director' - a role which he is, by his own account, covering himself at the moment and is thus, by definition, supposedly qualified. It beggars belief.

The place needs a palace revolution. Someone walking down the corridor saying 'you're fired . . and you and you'.