Hi All - I thought I would try to write down some of my thoughts, concentrating on competitions 8-13, having been very interested in the thread about players choosing to play French league tennis instead of Aegon Regional/National Team Tennis. It's obvious in France that there is a much better structure, with more engagement, more activity and more interest.

1. The biggest form of organised competitive tennis, by far, is our network of county or district doubles leagues. These come in all shapes and sizes in terms of format, but generally consist of a team of 4-6 players playing 3-6 sets of tennis against an opposition team. These leagues can be very traditional and I would imagine up to 100 years old. These events are insular, with their own rules, committees and organisation. Winners from each county do not progress to a regional or national competition and they are mainly held between April to June.

2. Participation figures suggest over 400k people play tennis in the UK, taking 50% of these to be men, it can be estimated that only 25% play in any type of formal competition.

3. Tournament participation has been on the slide for years due to extended working hours, commuting times, family commitments. I estimate only 5% of tennis participants play in recreational tournaments.

Our national league, currently known as Aegon Team Tennis has a much newer format, including singles and doubles, and team progress to regional and national level. Currently this event runs at the same time as the county doubles leagues, therefore it is competing against the much older, traditional leagues in terms of player & court availability. For this reason a large club with perhaps 6 men's county/district league teams might only have 1 aegon team tennis county team. At the Regional/National level often the Aegon Team's include non-members who don't play or appear at the club for any other reason.

If we could start again would it not make sense to create a unified national competition structure, i.e.:

April - May District/County Doubles Leagues
June - August County/Regional Leagues
September - October Regional/National Leagues

A unified national competition structure needs to cater for men and women and all age groups. Once you start to narrow down the focus to the so-called open mens elite level (which they're not) you're narrow the appeal and decimate the possibilities for expanding the game.

What are you offering the talented, trained forty five or fifty year old (or any year old, apart from 'open') - a place in a midweek mixed doubles team playing against a two bit club with two grotty courts and a garden shed? Forget it.

Sorry to sound negative but does competition mean anything unless there's money or prestige involved? The present Aegon club competition pales into insignificance compared to its continental counterparts and some thinking is required into how we best address this weakness. What is wrong with our present club competition set-up and how do we motivate our best players to stay involved with their clubs? That will probably require the involvement of the LTA as I'm not sure how you would be able to organise this in a totally private fashion.

EddietheEagle wrote:

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Sorry to sound negative but does competition mean anything unless there's money or prestige involved? The present Aegon club competition pales into insignificance compared to its continental counterparts and some thinking is required into how we best address this weakness. What is wrong with our present club competition set-up and how do we motivate our best players to stay involved with their clubs? That will probably require the involvement of the LTA as I'm not sure how you would be able to organise this in a totally private fashion.

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 Probably not for elite players, those who would play European League or who are trying to make a career but for the vast majority of players in this country money and prestige are irrelevant.  They just want decent and accessible competition for their level.  B2W is right, our competition structure is not very logical and credit to him for giving it some thought.  A better competition structure would also benefit juniors coming through. 

A good junior in this country tends to play within their own age group, domestically or internationally.  What they don't have access to is playing all comers whilst growing up - you know, the strong captain of the men's team, the woman with the wonky but hard to read serve, those who play doubles all the time and are demons at the net, adults who don't have their skill but more power, adults who have less power but more skill...... The competition and club structure in Europe gives good juniors access to all of this whilst they are developing and the benefits are clear to see as their kids transition to seniors.

'Does competition mean anything unless there's money or prestige involved". Well, yes!

The huge majority of folk are not involved just to practice and / or hopefully one day reach some high level or just to play bounce games with friends and get a bit fitter.

Playing competitively, particularly against unfamiliar opponents, to me is largely what sport is about. And that very much applies to most of the masses as well as the top few %.

In fact the chance of real competition may help grow the masses and stop disulusioning others into giving up.

We have had stories on this forum about how difficult folk have found it to get competitive tennis even in the London area. Football, say, hardly remotely an issue.

Sorry, for in essence largely repeating what others have said, but as you can sse I very much agree.

For anyone interested I have done some research on District versus County tennis in my own county of Essex. Results as follows for Open Men only:

9 x District Leagues = 70 clubs and 235 teams
2 x County Leagues = 42 clubs and 91 teams

Aegon Team Tennis Essex County Level is only 26 teams or 8% of a total 326 competing teams across the county. This is the only league involving singles and is the only league involving regional and national progression.

Small clubs (with 3 or less teams) represent 45% of total district teams, but in county competition this falls to 23% - so it seems only bigger clubs are interested in competing outside their district.

All the leagues run over the same period of time and are essentially competing with each other in terms of player and court availability.

Would be nice if we could see some natural progression, district leagues operate then winners progress to county leagues then winners progress to regional (much like my district competition proposal!).

Born2WinTennis wrote:

         1. Most adult County or District competition is solely doubles based - no element of singles

2. It is also insular, meaning winners never progress to play new and different teams from other districts or counties

3. 6 player teams can be a struggle for smaller clubs in terms of availability so they don't progress up the divisional structure

4. New teams entering existing leagues have to start at the very bottom of sometimes 10 divisions, meaning they have years to get to a correct standard, effectively making a closed door to new park based or public venue teams

5. They only happen once a year for 2-3 months of the year - so again if you do well and get promoted you need to wait 9 months for the next match in the new division

6. Winter and summer leagues are not joined up, you could spend 5 years getting from div5 to div1 in summer and if you want to join a winter league you have to start in div5 again.

The Aegon team tennis format solves a lot of these issues, however due to the overwhelming dominance of the county leagues described above, tennis committees do not promote the aegon format in adults competition and are reluctant to give up court time to it.  It still only involves around 5 matches per year and only 42% of clubs in the UK compete in it, the figure is only 20% for small clubs with 1-3 courts.

My proposal - that I have already put to the LTA:

1. Would contain an element of singles

2. Would see winners progress to play new and different teams from other districts and counties

3. Would be 4 player teams max and allow you to select players from beaten opponents in the same district - meaning you are effectively representing your club and district, very exciting

4. Would involve some type of inclusive, knockout format, where new clubs have the same chance to progress as any other teams, meaning you don't have to compete for ten years to get a new venue to competition at the correct level

5. Could happen twice a year at least, if not more.  Format needs to be very flexible and work around current team tennis commitments. 

6. Winter and summer events would be joined up, so encouraging competition all year round, not just predominantly in summer. It's okay if you don't want to play in winter, but the committed winter players should get some type of reward.

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Have a look at the way German league tennis is organised. I spent several years playing for a team there and I'd wholeheartedly endorse their system which is very, very successful in terms of organisation, participation and performance. CoupDroit has knowledge of the French system which by all accounts, is equally successful in its own way. There will be some good, comparative pointers for you.

While I wasn't playing for money (besides expenses) I was drawn by the opportunity to play good quality singles matches (and doubles) against players of my era, some with serious tennis pedigrees. The top players even in the seniors, were well paid. So the prestige was certainly there. Even for an Over's side, getting promotion into the Regionallige (the highest level behind Bundesliga) was a big deal. It meant weekend trips to play other important clubs, guaranteed indoor club availability in the event of rain and the eventual prospect of playing a national final in a top venue. I played on one surface continually - red clay - and at very good clubs with great courts and facilities. How could an older player not strive to play his best tennis under those circumstances? That kind of atmosphere provides value and purpose to playing, the glue which any system requires to stand the course of time. 

The whole UK tennis scene is dysfunctional by comparison. To say money or prestige are irrelevant in addressing that problem, shows a lack of understanding in my view. For example, we have Wimbledon here, the ultimate tennis theatre, yet it's not harnessed in any serious way toward our national game. You ought to ask the LTA, 'Why not?'