Week 18 - ATP Masters 1000 (Mutua Madrileña Open) - Madrid - qualies (red clay)

A131 · Intermediate Club Player

RE: Week 18 - ATP Masters 1000 (Mutua Madrileña Open) - Madrid - qualies (red clay)

indiana · Tennis legend

I know that you know that ... OK, I'll stop :)

Spectator · All-time great

It's not one performance. It's in part repeated Davis Cup heroics (if he hadn't been there, there's no way that GB would be in the World Group now - he was a huge part of the victories that brought GB to the point where it was worth Mr Murray's time to play. And that's before you get to the victories over Querrey and Isner) It's also some very good grass tournaments. And the fact that he will be at worst just outside the cut-off. Yes, his troughs can be deeply frustrating even to those of us for whom he is a favourite player. But if ever anyone deserves a WC, to my mind it is he.

-- Edited by Spectator on Saturday 2nd of May 2015 03:40:41 PM

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

I think it should also be said that you don't get to a ranking of 100-110 in the world on "the back of one performance".

Despite the scoreline, I thought James played pretty well today. But in Carballes, he was up against a young and very talented clay court specialist who played metronomic accuracy worthy of David Ferrer. I can honestly say that you could count his UEs on the fingers of one hand.

It was clear from the start that James had decided to attack. He served excellently. His 1st serve was 68% and he was really going big on almost very serve. There was no holding back to "up" the %age, because he knew that once they got into a rally situation, he was 2nd favourite every time.

Wardy played a lot of very aggressive ground strokes and tried to move Carballes around. This was not the Wardy that plods it down the centre all day, as he is prone to do occasionally, but a Wardy with a game plan. Unfortunately Carballes chases everything down. I remember the same when he played Kyle in Murcia two years ago, sitting next to Beechy who was almost aghast at Carballes retrieval ability. Today was exactly the same.

In the 1st set, one bad service game did for Wardy and there was no way back.

In the 2nd set, he fought hard to get to 4-4. He tried in a couple of games to upset Carballes rhythm by taking the pace off the ball and hitting slice. But the Spaniard lapped that up as well and in the end, ran out a worthy winner. When I saw the stat that Carballes had only lost 3 points on serve in the entire match, I could hardly believe it.

People are entitled to think what that want about Wardy. The world would be a boring place if we all thought the same LOL. But take in from me today at least. This loss was not down to Wardy playing badly, but down to Carballes playing a stormer.

RJA · Hall of fame

A131 wrote:
I just struggle to believe at times that James Ward is ranked as high as he is - sorry not one of my favourites. Once again he has been beaten - comfortably it would seem - by a bloke outside the top 200. I know rankings can sometimes be a bit misleading and they are not always a fair reflection of form but shouldn't JW at least be making it a bit more competitive. Davis Cup aside - he has not beaten one player inside the top 150 since early to mid-October, won only one match on the main tour, and beaten only one player inside the top 200 all year. What also gets me is that it would seem that he has also been assured of a wc , irrespective of performances or ranking, as he has already stated that he is playing the Nottingham Open the week before Wimbledon and the week the qualifying tournament will take place. Or he has made the assumption, that he feels he is entitled to one - and I'm sorry I do sense an air of entitlement about him based on previous years - that he will get one whatever but I suspect the former. Either way it is just wrong imho. If it was left to me - and I'm not a fan of wild cards at the best of times as some know - he would be made to qualify and earn the right to be there like 94% of the field have to. But I know that won't happen.

I would say that pretty much all of the evidence suggests that James is a player whose level is somewhere around 150 in the world. He has been able to push his ranking a bit higher over the last year through a combination of smart scheduling, a bit of luck and hard work (he played 31 tournaments + 2 Davis ties last year). He still has a good chance to break the top 100 during the grass court season but at the moment I don't think there is much prospect of him going a much further or staying there for long. There was a lot of talk at the end of last year and the start of this year about how James had pushed on but I don't really think there is much to suggest that he is a substantially better player now than he was 2 years ago.

freerider · Futures level

A131 wrote:
LouieG wrote:
Behave, Ward deserves any WC he gets issued by the LTA after his DC performances
Fine that's your opinion - I obviously don't think he does. Nobody should get into the main draw of a grand slam on the back of one performance.

And nobody gets to World ranked 103 on the back of 1 performance either

edit: just realised there was a second page of comments and this has already been said!

-- Edited by freerider on Saturday 2nd of May 2015 05:27:55 PM

RJA · Hall of fame

On the subject of the Wimbledon wild card. I don't have a problem with James getting a wild card, assuming that he does end up needing one, but I could also see a case for him not been granted one unless his form improves. British players are very lucky with wild card opportunities and nobody should ever assume that they are entitled to a Wimbledon wild card.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

freerider wrote:

And nobody gets to World ranked 103 on the back of 1 performance either

edit: just realised there was a second page of comments and this has already been said!

-- Edited by freerider on Saturday 2nd of May 2015 05:27:55 PM

No problem Freerider. You are welcome to agree with me any time you like smile

A131 · Intermediate Club Player

Bob in Spain wrote:
I think it should also be said that you don't get to a ranking of 100-110 in the world on "the back of one performance".

Despite the scoreline, I thought James played pretty well today. But in Carballes, he was up against a young and very talented clay court specialist who played metronomic accuracy worthy of David Ferrer. I can honestly say that you could count his UEs on the fingers of one hand.

It was clear from the start that James had decided to attack. He served excellently. His 1st serve was 68% and he was really going big on almost very serve. There was no holding back to "up" the %age, because he knew that once they got into a rally situation, he was 2nd favourite every time.

Wardy played a lot of very aggressive ground strokes and tried to move Carballes around. This was not the Wardy that plods it down the centre all day, as he is prone to do occasionally, but a Wardy with a game plan. Unfortunately Carballes chases everything down. I remember the same when he played Kyle in Murcia two years ago, sitting next to Beechy who was almost aghast at Carballes retrieval ability. Today was exactly the same.

In the 1st set, one bad service game did for Wardy and there was no way back.

In the 2nd set, he fought hard to get to 4-4. He tried in a couple of games to upset Carballes rhythm by taking the pace off the ball and hitting slice. But the Spaniard lapped that up as well and in the end, ran out a worthy winner. When I saw the stat that Carballes had only lost 3 points on serve in the entire match, I could hardly believe it.

People are entitled to think what that want about Wardy. The world would be a boring place if we all thought the same LOL. But take in from me today at least. This loss was not down to Wardy playing badly, but down to Carballes playing a stormer.

That's fair enough Bob - though I have said before that I feel his rise in rankings is similar to what RJA described in this thread - smart scheduling etc etc plus luck with the draws. I think you do know that when I referred to my 'on the back of one performance' it was based on the assumption that he would need a wild card and that one really good win (since October 2014) should not be allowed to override everything.

philwrig · Hall of fame

Purely based upon his DC heroics alone Wardy deserves a WC at Wimby. Endof !!!!!!!!!

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

A131

It has to be said that Wardy's results have not been what some of us had expected over the last few months. Whether that is because the top 100 milestone has affected him, whether it is because he is on the clay which is typically not a good surface, or whether you are right and his ranking is slightly above his actual playing ability already, who knows ? It is fun to discuss these matters and we will never all agree - fortunately.

I'm happy to admit that I am a "glass half full" type of person and that my "rose tinted spectacles" will often affect my opinion. I respect your opinion as well.

But specifically with regard to this WC situation now, but without getting into the rights and wrongs of WCs in general (which is a different matter altogether), if they scrapped them for Wimbledon and simply gave those 8 places to the next players in the ranking, Wardy would get in on ranking anyway as things currently stand. So in my opinion, it would be wrong to deny him a WC on this occasion and give it to a lower ranked (perhaps) non-Brit.

A131 · Intermediate Club Player

Bob in Spain wrote:
A131

It has to be said that Wardy's results have not been what some of us had expected over the last few months. Whether that is because the top 100 milestone has affected him, whether it is because he is on the clay which is typically not a good surface, or whether you are right and his ranking is slightly above his actual playing ability already, who knows ? It is fun to discuss these matters and we will never all agree - fortunately.

I'm happy to admit that I am a "glass half full" type of person and that my "rose tinted spectacles" will often affect my opinion. I respect your opinion as well.

But specifically with regard to this WC situation now, but without getting into the rights and wrongs of WCs in general (which is a different matter altogether), if they scrapped them for Wimbledon and simply gave those 8 places to the next players in the ranking, Wardy would get in on ranking anyway as things currently stand. So in my opinion, it would be wrong to deny him a WC on this occasion and give it to a lower ranked (perhaps) non-Brit.

You know what Bob, in reference to your last paragraph, the irony is that is exactly what I have suggested previously - the only difference being that WCs should be scrapped for the other grand slams to, not just Wimbledon. So if that was implemented and when the music stops so to speak, JW was among those 8 then I could live with that no matter how much I thought that he would be lucky to get through qualifying on current form.

indiana · Tennis legend

For these of us who basically think that the whole MD field in a Slam should be DEs, then James wouldn't deserve entry to the main draw if not ranked high enough, whatever he has done in Davis Cup, end of !

That is my own fundamental view and nothing at all against James, rather the system.

But given we have what we have re WCs in all the Slams, James is to me rather more deserving than most of a MD WC.

indiana · Tennis legend

Good point Bob that having no MD WCs would logically extend the number of DEs.

If there were still 16 qualifiers, there would be 112 direct entrants.

If James ends up in the top 112 at entry date I would accept that he will have absolutely deserved his place and that it will be these outside that 112 and granted MD WCs that will have benefitted from the WC system.

And that's even without the point that James essentially has no specific need ( other than satisfaction ) to do all he can to make top 104 / 112, whatever, since the fact is that he knows he will be in.

RJA · Hall of fame

philwrig wrote:
Purely based upon his DC heroics alone Wardy deserves a WC at Wimby. Endof !!!!!!!!!

Sorry Phil but this is utter nonsense. Henri Laaksonen's exploits in the Davis Cup this year probably exceed that of James. He was ranked 344 in the world when he won both live rubbers against Bemelmans WR 132 and Darcis WR 102, the former from 2-0 down and the latter from 2-1 down. He deserves a Wimbledon wild card just as much as James does but we all know that he won't get one. I don't begrudge James a Wimbledon wild card but it is a privilege not a right and if he did not have the good fortune to be a subject of Her Majesty he would not receive one.

-- Edited by RJA on Saturday 2nd of May 2015 09:54:11 PM