Week 9 - Challenger (€42,500+H) - Quimper, France (hard)

emma · Strong Club Player

RE: Week 9 - Challenger (€42,500+H) - Quimper, France (hard)

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

Ed is 27, has never been past the quarters of a Challenger and has never been in the top 200. Ward is in a different class and if some of you knew your stuff you would know that he had got to the semi final of an ATP 250 by the time he was 24! To compare the two is ridiculous. I watched Ed's match yesterday and the difference between the two players was far bigger than even their rankings.
I'm accused of ignorance, lol, and some people think that by continuing to throw money at players who don't perform is going to turn them into winners, dream on!

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Mark1968 wrote:
Ed is 27, has never been past the quarters of a Challenger and has never been in the top 200. Ward is in a different class and if some of you knew your stuff you would know that he had got to the semi final of an ATP 250 by the time he was 24! To compare the two is ridiculous. I watched Ed's match yesterday and the difference between the two players was far bigger than even their rankings.
I'm accused of ignorance, lol, and some people think that by continuing to throw money at players who don't perform is going to turn them into winners, dream on!

Mark, I happen to agree that James is a cut above Ed. And that it's true that there's no point directly funding people ad finitum.

However, you can't (in my opinion) base your claim (that players over 25 who haven't made it are not worth anything) on one single match from Ed.

As said before, a match takes two people and if you knew the French side, you'd know that Barrere is a top rated player, identified by the FFT as a leading hope, with the full commitment of the FFT behind them. This is irregardless of his ranking because the French claim that they know their tennis better than to just use rankings as a judgement. Seemingly, Barrere had some backhand issues which was what he's been focusing on the last year, and specifically told to ignore his ranking, to work on his game. As such, the french would say that Barrere's ranking is a complete no-brainer and should be ignored. Therefore it doesn't mean that Ed is 'cr*p' just because he lost (easily) to Barrere.

After all, what about when Ed thrashed Millot, a top 200 player (or so)? Did you see it ? Did you then say, 'oh Ed must be brilliant, top 150 at least, because he thrashed a guy who was top150 a few months ago'?

My own belief is that you're right and that Ed should not be getting direct funding ASSUMING THAT the LTA uses its large finance pot to put in place a dynamic tennis industry whereby the sport of tennis helps support players itself, organically. If they can't do that (and it's very tricky, seemingly so at least), then direct funding may have to be the way.

BeefyDeedz · Pro player

Coup Droit wrote:
Mark1968 wrote:
Ed is 27, has never been past the quarters of a Challenger and has never been in the top 200. Ward is in a different class and if some of you knew your stuff you would know that he had got to the semi final of an ATP 250 by the time he was 24! To compare the two is ridiculous. I watched Ed's match yesterday and the difference between the two players was far bigger than even their rankings.
I'm accused of ignorance, lol, and some people think that by continuing to throw money at players who don't perform is going to turn them into winners, dream on!

Mark, I happen to agree that James is a cut above Ed. And that it's true that there's no point directly funding people ad finitum.
However, you can't (in my opinion) base your claim (that players over 25 who haven't made it are not worth anything) on one single match from Ed.
As said before, a match takes two people and if you knew the French side, you'd know that Barrere is a top rated player, identified by the FFT as a leading hope, with the full commitment of the FFT behind them. This is irregardless of his ranking because the French claim that they know their tennis better than to just use rankings as a judgement. Seemingly, Barrere had some backhand issues which was what he's been focusing on the last year, and specifically told to ignore his ranking, to work on his game. As such, the french would say that Barrere's ranking is a complete no-brainer and should be ignored. Therefore it doesn't mean that Ed is 'cr*p' just because he lost (easily) to Barrere.
After all, what about when Ed thrashed Millot, a top 200 player (or so)? Did you see it ? Did you then say, 'oh Ed must be brilliant, top 150 at least, because he thrashed a guy who was top150 a few months ago'?
My own belief is that you're right and that Ed should not be getting direct funding ASSUMING THAT the LTA uses its large finance pot to put in place a dynamic tennis industry whereby the sport of tennis helps support players itself, organically. If they can't do that (and it's very tricky, seemingly so at least), then direct funding may have to be the way.

100% agree with you, CD. Mark's reasoning is absurd.

chavkev · Intermediate Club Player

If we don't spend the money on our Tennis players, where will it go? The bonus scheme has been pared down this season sadly. I don't see any benefits so far this season, one extra challenger in Glasgow aside. The LTA will absorb a significant amount of money themselves as any large bureaucracy will do, so any moves to cut funding will not lead to any further funding elsewhere. Forgive the slightly rambling nature of this comment, but if you put a whole group of people together with a pot of money, they will devise ever increasingly arcane and pointless ways to spend it. The bonus scheme was a good idea that has been slashed and we have nothing to show for this cut right now.

indiana · Tennis legend

So, James is in a totally different league / category from Ed.

I guess that means that the LTA have always recognised this and helped and nurtured James to be the player he is rather than more just continually put so much money and focus into the next generation.

Oh wait ...

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Yes. Where should that money go ?

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2983605/LTA-stump-624-000-recruit-chief-executive-Michael-Downey-reaping-record-39m-Wimbledon.html

Record funding of £39.6m from Wimbledon this year and £624.000 spent on the new CEO. You'd think they could spare a few pennies for the players.

TMH · Futures qualifying

Not really sure why people are trying to engage in intelligent discussion with him. He's clearly either a troll or thick as pig****.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Bob in Spain wrote:
Yes. Where should that money go ?

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2983605/LTA-stump-624-000-recruit-chief-executive-Michael-Downey-reaping-record-39m-Wimbledon.html

Record funding of £39.6m from Wimbledon this year and £624.000 spent on the new CEO. You'd think they could spare a few pennies for the players.

Great link.

And, yes, as has been said before, this is one of the main points, i think - the money for the bonus top-up, or indeed the British Tour, or even the Aegon Team tennis, are all SUCH chicken feed in comparison with the £18 mill, or whatever, of staff costs. It's obviously a pure point of principle, nothing to do with the economics. Which begs the question . . .

And, having moved a whole family over from the US, I'd like Downey to know it can be done for a LOT less than £190k ! confuse

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

So, it has to be mentioned, Mark, that the WC Greg Barrere today beat Guez (about WR 200, previously near WR 100) in the semi-final and has made the final.

A1 tennis academy · Satellite level

Coup Droit wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:
Yes. Where should that money go ?

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2983605/LTA-stump-624-000-recruit-chief-executive-Michael-Downey-reaping-record-39m-Wimbledon.html

Record funding of £39.6m from Wimbledon this year and £624.000 spent on the new CEO. You'd think they could spare a few pennies for the players.

Great link.
And, yes, as has been said before, this is one of the main points, i think - the money for the bonus top-up, or indeed the British Tour, or even the Aegon Team tennis, are all SUCH chicken feed in comparison with the £18 mill, or whatever, of staff costs. It's obviously a pure point of principle, nothing to do with the economics. Which begs the question . . .
And, having moved a whole family over from the US, I'd like Downey to know it can be done for a LOT less than £190k !

Outrageous CEO getting more than the players

BeefyDeedz · Pro player

I'm rather excited to hear this master plan later this month. Bets on empty references to grassroots, anyone? Just invest the bloody money.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Well, Brett was interviewed at the David Cup and, yes, again all we had was 'youngsters' and 'need to work hard and show proof of commitment' and 'need time for policy to work its way through' etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. ........ yawn .........

chavkev · Intermediate Club Player

A1. I have never agreed with you more.

indiana · Tennis legend

Did Brett have any comment about James Ward ?