I think that several things need to happen in order for more of the best players to make a living from Tennis .We are losing so many younger players and players with great potential talent. Why is it that one of the worlds most popular sports can only give maybe the best 150 players in the world a living? It doesn't seem right to me. The more players who can make a living, the more players will be encouraged to start playing tennis which will ultimately lead to better tennis players in the long run. Players mature & develop at different ages and players are quitting the sport before they have reached their best and may never reach their full potential. I want the best players to have a fair chance at making it to the top of tennis. We've seen time and time again how players can suddenly dramatically improve and I want these players who haven't reached their potential to be able to make a living so that when they reach their best, they haven't given up. Below I have outlined some ideas I have had as to how to make the game fairer. Some parts are controversial, some parts are significantly different from the way in which the sport is structured so please approach these ideas with an open mind.
1. Fairer prize money and ranking points for tournaments
For most players, it isn't fair how steep the rankings points and prize money is distributed in tennis tournaments If you loose to Djokovic in the first round of a tournament in 3 tiebreaks you get the same amount of points/money as you would in the same tournament losing in straight sets to an lowly wildcard in the first round. It is also silly how if you loose one game you are out of a tournament. All players have bad days and, other than the very best, good consistency is defined by winning most of your matches, not all of them. It is also frustrating that only half of players in the main draw play more than one game a week and it isn't fair for them to be judged solely on one game and to travel in many cases a large distance, for maybe an hours experience of competitive tennis. I propose a system that looks something like the following:
Tournaments typically consisting of 32 players divided into four pools based on ranking position (i.e. Pool 1 consists of the top 8 highest ranked players in the tournament, 9-16 in Pool 2, 17-24 in Pool 3, 25-32 in Pool 4.)
In the first stage, everyone plays 3 games against 1 player from each of the other pools drawn randomly (i.e. if you are in Pool 1, you play one game against a player from pools 2, 3 and 4). You award points based on how close the games are. The simplest way of doing this would be to award 3-0 for a straight set victory and 2-1 for a win in 3 sets but you could instead award points based on % of points won, % of games won, difficulty of opponent etc. to make it even fairer. The crucial aspect of this would be to distribute the same number of points in each game. By this I mean that, for example, it will always be three points (either 2-1 or 3-0). This is to ensure there isn't a mutually beneficial scenario.
After this round of games is complete, the lowest scoring 12 players are removed to reduce the field to 20. These remaining players could play another game. This could look something like player with the most points vs player who finished 20th, player with the second most points vs player who finished 19th and so on. This game points-wise it weighted higher than the first stage.
After this round of games is complete, the lowest scoring 8 players are removed to reduce the field to 12. These remaining players could play another game. This could look something like player with the most points vs player who finished 12th, player with the second most points vs player who finished 11th and so on. This game points-wise it weighted higher than the previous stages.
After this round of games is complete, the two highest scoring plays play each other in a final, and the third and fourth highest scorers play in a third-place play-off.
After the tournament all the players have a finishing position 1-32 which can determine prize money and ranking points. This would be much more gradual than the current knockout system which also give players an opportunity to play more competitive games, gives them a better idea of their skill level, and gives a fairer result in terms of how many ranking points they get and how much money they get (i.e. in the current system if you get drawn against a seed you are in a far worse position than you would be in this scenario as over three games against differing skill luck evens out.)
2. More money from the top of the game and from the women's game
More money should come from the top and be distributed into the lower levels (i.e. challengers and futures) to invest in the future.
More money should come from the women's game and be distributed amongst the best tennis players due to the disastrous affect on the game of taking money out of it to fund the women's game. I think it's strange how they didn't forsee that taking so much money of the the sport wouldn't have significant repercussions. I don't see why the best tennis players should suffer so much money being taken out of the game and put into the women's game, despite the lower crowds at each level of the game. I also don't see why the best players in the world get paid as much as the best women. If this is valid, then logically the best disabled people and the best senior players should be paid the same amount as the best players simply because they can't compete with the best players.
3. Tennis leagues
To sustain more players in the game, leagues could be set up at each level. This could look something like:
Top 150 players playing at the ATP level
151-400 playing at what is now challenger level
401-1000 playing at low challenger/high futures
1001-2000 playing at what is equivalent to low level futures
This would involve promotion/relegation between the levels perhaps every 12 months/6 months and players in the top 2-3 levels are paid a wage by virtue of being in those leagues. Again, this would sustain a far higher number of players and would encourage a higher number of younger players to stay on if they could guarantee an income. Play-offs could occur between the bottom 20% and top 20% of consecutive tiers to determine if players can be promoted and relegated. The tournaments prize money could be re-weighted to ensure that it is very difficult for a player at the top of, for example, tier 3 to earn more money than someone at the bottom of tier 2, when the default wage is taken into account.
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I am very interested in your thoughts and opinions including other ways of improving what I have said above.
I appreciate I can't change the structure, but because it's such an important issue, it seems reasonable to discuss this on the forum.
I am also interested in any other ideas that people might have had as to ways of making the sport fairer.
-- Edited by steven on Monday 19th of January 2015 03:01:20 PM
Re no 1, for the moment I am rendered fairly speechless. I may return at more length to add to any coherent thoughts that others may have.
But the initial biggee for me is that tennis is about winning and losing, not by how much you win or lose.
I understand the general mechanics of no 1, but just can't see it being a winner with fans trying to follow or indeed players. The ATP, a couple of years or so ago, just trying to introduce initial 3 man groups leading into KO for some tournaments has previously been deemed a failure and fairly rapidly discontinued. This is much more complex and to me undesirable.
I want winners and losers and when that comes from a clear and very understandable random KO draw that's very fine with me.
I like to see people offering ideas and thinking outside the box - I just really strongly dislike no 1 for a number of reasons.
We've seen time and time again how players can suddenly dramatically improve and I want these players who haven't reached their potential to be able to make a living so that when they reach their best, they haven't given up.
I'm struggling to think of any examples, apart from occasional youngsters (like Raonic) swiftly making the transition to the adult game.
Tennis is a pretty typical "pyramid remuneration" profession, where a few at the top earn massive amounts, and the rest earn nothing. Others are acting, music, most other sports, and of course DRUG DEALING (this must be about the tenth time I've name-checked Levitt & Dubner's chapter in Freakonomics, "Why do drug dealers live with their Moms?").
The problem is of course that if you can see the very best practitioners for a reasonable price (or free on the TV), why would you want to see anyone else? Hence there's no revenues outside the top echelon, and in tennis terms you literally can't give away entry to $10k tournaments.
I sort of agree that it's a bit odd to pay women the same as men, when they aren't nearly as good. But here's a thought. Most popular sports are pretty much 90% men watching - you don't tend to hear women discussing football in pubs. But the audience for tennis must be pretty much 50/50 between men and women, and women are just as likely to talk about tennis at the office water-cooler. And so maybe the equal prize money is a stylishly PC ploy to attract women as viewers, and thereby double the audience and the revenues.
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"Where Ratty leads - the rest soon follow" (Professor Henry Brubaker - The Institute of Studies)
I know this is a tennis forum but am finding the above difficult to read as I have to keep going from side to side. Is it my laptop or how its been written?
Anyhow, thank you for the post and your thoughts.
All I will say at the moment about contentious no. 2 is that I have watched some very exciting mens tennis matches and equally as exciting womens tennis matches. I've also watched lousy matches from both. During grand slams I generally prefer to watch the women plus favourite male players. That is my personal choice.
However, I do agree with your first sentence, it would be good if more money could come out of the top to be distributed to the lower levels.
Yes, Emma, I too have issues with abnormal width for the initial post and then subsequent posts in this thread. Don't know what has caused it so I'd say that it's general and not your laptop. I've seen it very occasionally, but more usually involving photos.
Anyway, point no 2 was essentially so multi layered that I for one just wasn't going there !
Quote "I sort of agree that its a bit odd to pay women the same as men, when they aren't as good."
could you explain what you mean by the word 'good' ? thanks
Certainly. Serena Williams would hardly win a point if she played Djokovic. The top 1,000 men, maybe even the top 10,000 if you could identify them, would beat Serena Williams.
But I like watching women's tennis too. I'd much rather watch a women's match - any women's match - than a men's match involving the likes of Berdych, Raonic, Isner, Karlovic, etc.
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"Where Ratty leads - the rest soon follow" (Professor Henry Brubaker - The Institute of Studies)
I changed the long, solid line near the bottom of the first post to "--------------------------" - that has sorted out the post width problem for me, so hopefully it has done the same for everyone else too.
As for the content, I certainly agree that after players have travelled a long way to a tournament, it seems a terrible waste that they can draw one of the top seeds and be almost certain to get to play just one short match.
I also don't know why round robins/leagues can't work in tennis when they work in so many other sports (not without any problems, obviously, but on balance they work), but when they did trial round robins in ATP 250s, the players seemed to hate them and to be determined to make sure they didn't work, so what can you do? Maybe it's just because the 'lose and go home' thing is so ingrained in tennis or maybe it's because tennis takes such a toll on the body that players don't actually want to play more matches than they absolutely have to. I wonder if that is as true at the lower levels as it is at ATP level though - surely it must be demoralising to fly somewhere and end up playing just one short match then either have to go home (maybe after playing doubles too) or wait around for the following week's event there if there is one.
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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!
Never be afraid of going there (what my coach once said to me)! The assertion regarding women and money is a factual nonsense for one thing and makes the proposition itself sound as daft as it comes across.
Quote "I sort of agree that its a bit odd to pay women the same as men, when they aren't as good."
could you explain what you mean by the word 'good' ? thanks
Certainly. Serena Williams would hardly win a point if she played Djokovic. The top 1,000 men, maybe even the top 10,000 if you could identify them, would beat Serena Williams.
But I like watching women's tennis too. I'd much rather watch a women's match - any women's match - than a men's match involving the likes of Berdych, Raonic, Isner, Karlovic, etc.
well Mr Ratty if you're not already working in politics, I would suggest that would be an excellent job for you!!
-- Edited by emmas on Tuesday 20th of January 2015 09:03:34 PM
Never be afraid of going there (what my coach once said to me)! The assertion regarding women and money is a factual nonsense for one thing and makes the proposition itself sound as daft as it comes across.
mmm I used to go there all the time but now I've learnt its best sometimes to walk away :)