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Post Info TOPIC: US College Signings 2015


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RE: US College Signings 2015


Stirling Unversity for a responsible tennis development programme

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Hear, hear.

Am I correct in thinking that Stirling provides our top-ranked (UK) university player at present in both doubles and singles? And apart from Stirling and Bath, are there graduates from any other UK university programmes - other than the LSE - playing professional tennis?

I had another question from another thread, which might also best go here. I was just looking up Christian Garin (James Ward's next opponent) and noted that his ATP profile page suggested that he has not yet turned pro. I noticed that Mr Rubin, when interviewed after his Challenger victory last week, also said he hadn't made a decision about turning pro - presumably because he still has the option to return to university. That one might expect, but I looked further at the top U20s and discovered that many others hadn't turned pro according to their ATP pages, including the Ymer brothers, Duckhee Lee, Quentin Halys, Dmitry Popko, Kamil Majchrzak, Omar Jasika, Daniil Medvedev, and Maxime Janvier. (For the record, Coric, Chung, Kokkinakis, Zverev, Donaldson, Khachanov, Rublev, Fritz, Tiafoe, and Paul all are. So it's a 50/50 split of the top 20 ... and not wholly by ranking)

Does anyone know what it actually means that so many of the Challenger-level players aren't pro? Can they accept prize money beyond what's necessary to cover their expenses? And what (beyond eligibility to play at university) are the benefits of not being pro?



-- Edited by Spectator on Wednesday 11th of November 2015 05:24:12 PM

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ATP qualifying

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I don't truly know the answer to your question Spectator, but the majority (if not all, don't know every individual circumstance) of those listed as 'pro' have signed representing agency agreements and the amateurs have not.  This may be co-incidental but I suspect not.  Apart from college ambitions, I can't think of any reason why a player would not declare themselves a professional.  Maybe to do with the funding structure in their home countries??

On the subject of Stirling, Colin Fleming has long sung its praises.  However, the main difference between tennis at a UK uni and an American one is the competition structure.  There are so many tennis programs at unis in the States that there are plenty of teams to play against.  Not so here.  Competition here is based on the British Tour and home Futures events and thus is more limited.



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ATP qualifying

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As this is the autumn signing week for athletes planning to go to college next academic year (there is another signing week in spring), I thought I'd open a new thread listing signees and for general college tennis chat.  It's easier to update having all the signees on P1.



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Tennis legend

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I don't know if this is mentioned somewhere in this thread but I noticed today that Tom Colautti won the following prize in 2015:

The Leon Lapidus Memorial Award (Men)

Awarded annually to that member of the Princeton varsity mens tennis team who has achieved the highest degree of excellence and demonstrated the greatest amount of dedication throughout the entire season.

2015 Thomas S. Colautti '17


(NB His current doubles partner in South Africa, Alex Day, won the same prize in 2016)


Also, Tom won this award in 2014:

Richard Swinnerton Trophy

Awarded annually to that freshman member of the Princeton tennis squad who through play, sportsmanship and influence has contributed most to the sport. Established by former Princeton tennis players in memory of Richard Swinnerton who coached many generations of Princetonians.

2014 Thomas S. Colautti '17


I know that posting them now is rather out of date but well done to him for being such a fine member of the uni. And good luck to him now as he gives pro tennis a go.

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That's impressive. I'm also struck by his steady progress of late. He was not making it out of qualifying regularly when he first started playing after finishing university. Now he's making MDs quite frequently. Good stuff.

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It will be very interesting to see how he does as obviously academia has taken up a significant amount of time both at and prior to university, his college record is pretty solid sneaked into the national college rankings as a junior and almost annual second team Ivy League.

Not a massive fan of the Ivy League and see it as a major compromise if Tennis is the long term objective OK if you want to be an enforcer in the NHL where being big and a decent skater and decent fighter will suffice. 95 CH junior ITF would have probably got him into Cal (Ben Draper, same school is a freshman there) or Stanford much better Tennis and academically equivalent. Top 500 would be a remarkable achievement.

It will be an interesting comparison with Jonny Gray (JCH 121) who is a good candidate to make top 500 and showing similar dedication is now close to the shortlisting criteria for LTA funding at 20.

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Yes, but you can't just compare to Jonny Gray i.e. one of that sort of cohort (97/98) who is doing pretty well at the moment in full-time tennis.

You'd also have to compare, say, to Alexis Canter, approx the same age, even better junior ranking, not doing the college route, and trying to play full-time pro, like Jonny. But unfortunately not having all that much success at the moment.









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It would have to be looked at much more long term and with many more players involved before I'd say you could begin to make much assessment of the tennis pros and cons of very different routes for these players of a level where there did seem be be a genuine choice to be made.

Even then, given the players haven't randomly gone down the routes they have but chosen these ( eg. the player that chooses to go straight to the tour is more likely to make that way work, most things being equalish than an other player who perhaps felt more suited by maturity or any number of reasons to go the college route and so went that way ).

Fling much more data in from many more players in after a number of years and as I say something may emerge of some interest but I would still be very wary of so many different variables and motivations involved.



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You're absolutely right, Mr. Stat-head There are a huge number of variables. And a lot of data out there - it would certainly be interesting if someone without a vested interest tried to do some meaningful analysis of different options that people take and different outcomes.

(NB you're quite right about Emily App, she was a 10 A* at GCSE student)

And no one answer will fit all - I'm absolutely sure that if Josh W-H had gone to college he would have had far more success in his long-term tennis career. But that's not because he didn't have the right junior profile to try full-time tennis but because Josh is a team sort of guy and a little 'young', I felt, and the collegiate spirit would have suited him and he would have been able to grow into the pro-life. However, I remember reading that Josh thought about it and decided that further academics of any sort wasn't for him - and that's not a criticism, many 18 year-olds are 'done' with books and studies, and that's just fine. So it was right for him not to go.
Luke Oakley would also have been snapped up at college, his parents (I believe) were quite in favour but he (a) wanted to try pro-tennis and (b) didn't fancy any further studies. Whether he would have succeeded more after college or not is not really the question, it was right for him not to go.
My worry, though, is that the LTA have short-term aims and goals, as an institution and personally by its key personnel (to justify their existence, keep their mandate, whatever). And, although maybe completely inaccurate, I got the feeling from a couple of people that Jodie and Emily had been 'advised' not to go, or 'tempted' into not going by promises. And - IF that were the case - I think it would be very wrong.

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It's so difficult: people are people, not just tennis players. And that means that inherently, there's going to be no single 'best' answer.

As you say, CD, recommending university to someone who's not particularly academic and wants a life of playing and coaching probably doesn't make sense. But for many players, it makes great sense. And then in terms of programmes, again, there is no one size fits all. You can, for academic reasons, go to the LSE, which is definitely not set up to encourage tennis success ...and attain a better ranking than many of the people who go to a US university with a good tennis team (I checked Mark Whitehouse against a few recent California teams and he did better than the vast majority) You might go to one of the giant tennis powerhouses, be miserable and never really try to play much again. Or you might go and love it and, like Dom Inglot, have a fine career. If I were a fine tennis player, somewhat academic, and heading off to a US university, based on the combination of academic reputation and the tennis players they've produced, I'd be sorely tempted not only by California institutions but by the University of Virginia. Or the University of North Carolina. Or the University of Wisconsin. Or Columbia. Or, indeed, given the start of this discussion, Princeton - whose highest-ranked recent alumnus, our old friend Matija Pecotic of Brit-bashing futures fame, had a CH of 206 despite being highly injury prone. It's a question of knowing where you personally will be happy, do well, and get the support you need.

Actually, as a rank outsider who's just going by what I see online (ie, yes, I know I really don't have a clue - but I will have an opinion!), the programmes I'm most impressed by in tennis terms are those that have supported some of our very good players to become very good to top professional players. I don't know who was coaching at LSU a few years ago - but a programme which nurtured the Skupskis, Michael Venus and James Cluskey was doing something right. Equally the University of Memphis seems to do very well indeed by its players. And while it's a small sample, it's interesting to remember the way Mr O'Hare and Mr Salisbury, at the start of their careers, played much better on one or two occasions when their coach was with them.

My primary regret is that there appears (again from the outside, so I may be incorrect) so little support for tennis-playing university students here, the notable exceptions being some institutions with specialist programmes: Loughborough, Stirling, Bath etc. There simply doesn't seem to be a lot of support for someone who wants to combine, for example, an engineering course and high-level tennis, as Georgia Craven did a few years ago. One wonders what it would cost to provide more support to people who want high-performance training while reading a wider range of subjects at a wider range of universities.



-- Edited by Spectator on Wednesday 29th of November 2017 06:17:08 PM

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It's a good point, Spec. In France, anyone who ranks as 'high level' in music or sport has the right to do their general degree in four years as opposed to three. And the expectation is that you will be doing a lot of playing and training and competing.
The main tennis players don't go for this, obviously, and even the next level usually go to uni to do something more directly tennis related. But for the 'next tier' down, the third level, so to speak, combining your engineering degree with high level tennis is fine and no problem.

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ATP qualifying

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Can I suggest we treat this thread as CLOSED and put college related posts into the thread for the current year - US College Signings 2018?  It gets a bit confusing with current posts going into several different threads relating to different years.



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