Week 36 - Road to the Shanghai Rolex Masters Challenger ($50,000) - Shanghai, China (hard)

stevemcqueen · Futures qualifying

RE: Week 36 - Road to the Shanghai Rolex Masters Challenger ($50,000) - Shanghai, China (hard)

indiana · Tennis legend

Hmm, Kyle does still seem to be at a stage that when it goes it often properly goes.

It would be good to see him cling on more when matches turn against him.

stevemcqueen · Futures qualifying

Yang holds despite 2 DFs. GSM 7-5, 6-2.

Yang played a super match. I haven't looked at the stats, but he was like a wall. His 2nd serve isn't all that great though and his net game is only average. So overall, a disappointment for Kyle but the best player won, the score is a fair reflection.

indiana · Tennis legend

Maybe as suggested, it is the lack of a Plan B, a sort of reset mechanism, that is hindering Kyle when he falls behind.

Maybe he needed a Plan B in the wind last week, and maybe a Plan B here when his most effective weapon was being somewhat neutralised.

Plenty I think to discuss and work on with Greg when they do manage to get back together.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Did Greg have a plan B himself?

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Interesting as he was very good in very strong wind in Astana but a good opponent today, been in and around the top 150 and 4 yrs more experience. Close run first set but sounds like there were opportunities to pinch it, obviously some work to be done psychologically as to how Kyle uses that break between sets to analyse his opponent, how they are playing how they are playing the game in relation to the anticipated approach, how to negate that and bring their weaknesses into play. Bit more experience on the bank. Great season so far

indiana · Tennis legend

I find myself falling between two apparent schools of thought on the forum.

I think it has been a season where Kyle has continued to progress well and am not overconcerned by the doings of the Kyrgioses, Corics and Zverevs. Kyle had a very good junior career and we rightly have high hopes for him, but his highest ever junior ranking was JWR 8 and he did not absolutely stand out. For what it does or doesn't matter, he has progressed at a slower rate than some of his junior peers and quicker than others. To me, although I have the occasional real concern re such as schedule and coaching, he is progressing pretty well.

Still though, bearing in mind that junior pedigree and hopes for certainly top 100 in time, maybe top 50 ( and once there who knows.. ) and some I think legitimate concerns, I think it overeggs the pudding to say it has been a great season.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Madeline wrote:
Did Greg have a plan B himself?

Very good point hmm

stevemcqueen · Futures qualifying

Coup Droit wrote:
Madeline wrote:
Did Greg have a plan B himself?

Very good point

He didn't really need one though, did he? He was taller than Kyle and hence better net coverage and Greg had a much, much bigger serve. Whilst Grep didn't have a plan B, one of the reasons for that is that he was not really capable of one. Kyle has better hands than Greg and should should go the extra yard to develop his "plan B" game whilst he is still young.

I think Yang will have a very good week if he can maintain anything like today's form.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

stevemcqueen wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
Madeline wrote:
Did Greg have a plan B himself?

Very good point
He didn't really need one though, did he? He was taller than Kyle and hence better net coverage and Greg had a much, much bigger serve. Whilst Grep didn't have a plan B, one of the reasons for that is that he was not really capable of one. Kyle has better hands than Greg and should should go the extra yard to develop his "plan B" game whilst he is still young.
I think Yang will have a very good week if he can maintain anything like today's form.

I agree with everything you say, steve.

But I guess what I took Madeline to be implying (and maybe completely wrongly) was: is Greg able to teach someone a plan B when he never had one himself ? And his plan A was quite specialised ?

One of my gripes with Greg as a coach is that when he commentates his sole judgement of a player seems to be focused on his serve and whether he volleys or not (maybe I over-exaggerate but...) and I once stood behind him at a match and he was passionate and into the match and all good things but he was like a broken record to the guy (assistant coach ? no idea) standing next to him, saying on every point the bloke lost, 'he should have gone to the net', 'that was the perfect ball for an approach shot' etc. etc. (NB the guy was a useless volleyer - the one way he was SURE to lose the match was to go to the net - not saying he shouldn't practice it but it wasn't going to do him any good on that particular day. And he carried on trying. And he lost). He may well have changed a bit now, more experience coaching and all that, but ...)

stevemcqueen · Futures qualifying

Yes CD, this is a very valid question. Greg's game was one dimensional. Because a coach had weaknesses in their own playing career does not necessarily mean that they can not coach the game style that they did not have. There are many very good coaches who have not had much of a playing career at all and it has not really been an impediment to their coaching. An extreme example would be Nick Bolletieri. If you were to ask me if Greg was a good coach, I would not be able to answer though. For sure he does bring something to the table - he knew how to win matches. In any case I think it is a good idea to change coaches every year or so to keep things fresh and see different perspectives.

I feel sure that Kyle will have a couple of really good tournaments before the end of the year.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Coup Droit wrote:

But I guess what I took Madeline to be implying (and maybe completely wrongly) was: is Greg able to teach someone a plan B when he never had one himself ? And his plan A was quite specialised ?

No, you weren't wrong. And while I get stevemcqueen's point about coaches sometimes being able to coach things they couldn't do themselves, I think that applies more to technical problems than the mental side. Greg never struck me as having a "tennis brain". Of course I may be wrong, but if I'm right he couldn't possibly advise somebody else in that department.

I think his strength in coaching is in his enthusiasm, to motivate a player.

EddietheEagle · County player

Madelaine, if someone was capable enough to outwit and beat Sampras in a big tennis final, he had a "tennis brain" all right. He had a relative problem with his backhand, much that you can say Lopez does now. That's a function of grip and his ever-constant desire to come in and volley; it makes you very continentalish. Henman had the same problem with his relatively erratic forehand. But how can you really fault either of them technically? Getting to world No 4 makes him an ATP tennis alien like all the top guys. Their tennis is on a different planet.

The problem with Rusedski as I see it with his mega salary on a part time job, is that he's positioned as a bit of an LTA celebrity coach. The level of application or dedication that he very clearly had as a player may not ultimately be there as a coach but who knows? I don't think it fair to judge the man at this point.

korriban · Challenger level

Just got home to see this result. Really disappointing, similar to last week's tournament (after the 2 relative "gimme" matches for someone of Kyle's obvious potential).

Plenty of time to put things right at the end of 2014, but I'd argue this hasn't been a fantastic season for Kyle to date compared to how things might have panned out. After all, the facts are that Kyle received a plethora of WCs throughout the early part of the year to ATP tournaments as well as Wimbledon over the summer, which means that the LTA, his backers and indeed those tournaments themselves gave him a resounding "vote of confidence" as a future star......an investment on their part for the future. And presumably each of those tournament organisers thought he might break through at their event. That didn't happen.

For me, I'd just have liked to see a sign of things yet to come........1 great CH tournament.........a brilliant and unexpected win against a top player with one of those WCs......here's hoping that's just around the corner. These things will come from within, and I wouldn't look at Greg one little bit.

Good luck mate! smile

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Regardless of everyone's expectations Kyle has made good progress this year, a string of wins/finals in ITF s at the beginning, followed by a good run to a couple of European challenger semi finals which is a complete gear change up in terms of opposition. He is now faced with another cohort of players to work out on this Asian string of challengers, the trip itself must be very different to the European ITF/USA ITF and challenger experience.

He isn't six five and is really 2-3 years away from optimising the power component of his game. I am certain that 18 months or so with Greg will do him absolutely no halm what so ever, Greg as a world number 4 and US open finalist obviously had a fair bit of tennis savy and craft that he seems more than willing to share, even if he just learns how to deliver plan A and motivate himself after loosing a tight first set. Are there many other young players getting better support that isn't a close family member.?

His modest last year in juniors singles was in part down to shifting focus to transition to the seniors at 17, you can't really fault his junior doubles career.

So what should we expect to see as a marker of progress, I feel a few more challenger tournaments with progression to semis hopefully putting him in a position to enter Slam qualifying in Australia or France. He obviously has lots of areas of his game to develop but Even at that gentle rate of progress he should be very well placed to take maximal advantage of his peak years 24-30.