NTC set to close

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

RE: NTC set to close

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes, are not the numbers and qualifications of coaches in the UK hugely behind such as France, Spain and Germany.

Being poorly coached, particularly at normally important development ages, can really set players back. It strikes me that with the lack of top coaches, landing with a good one ( and, of course, there are some ) can often be an element of luck.

Of course, there is the option ( but not for everyone ) of taking the bull by the horns, as Andy did, and finding excellent coaching outwith the UK.

Coaching, and coaching the coaches, is a huge issue, and one that the facilities of the NTC surely have an important part to play.

EddietheEagle · County player

Apparently there was some debate on Sky about this during a rain break. Anyone catch the gist? I caught some negative remarks from Petchey about the NTC but missed most of what Rusedski had to say. I expect he was fairly discreet seeing that his boss, Downey, is paying him megabucks with another boss, Brett, about to begin there.

indiana · Tennis legend

Would have liked to hear.

And, of course, the LTA themselves have evidently decided things were far wrong with the NTC setup. So I imagine there was room for less than complimentary comments, if still somewhat discreet and probably less than greatly enlightening.

paulisi · Tennis legend

I didn't hear the interview, but I was told they had one method of coaching and that method was forced on all players, whether it suited their game or not.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

As is often the case, Greg said a lot without saying very much at all! Fairly defensive about LTA and NTC but he's not really in a position to say anything to rock the boat. Spoke about the how difficult it is for juniors to transition and that we are particularly poor at it given we have such a tradition of good juniors.

Thought Annabel was more insightful. Said that the current centralised system encourages parents to bring kids out of school too young and to put them in an adult world which harms their personal development and causes problems in the long term. Said keeping players nearer to their families and friends and education would overall be of benefit for the youngsters and not just as tennis players. She also said that the current highly structured HPC system meant that youngsters expected all their tennis to be laid on for them and to be supervised whereas when she and Greg grew up, she learnt most about tennis by playing a practice set every day against opponents of all age groups and standards. She sees a great deal of training and wonderful stroke production with our juniors and really not a lot of actual tennis and matchplay skills.

paulisi · Tennis legend

Cheers for that.

One other thing to mention. I wonder if Roehampton will host a lot more ITF events given it's lack of use next year.

The Southern softies are moaning that they have to travel up north all the time(cheaper to hire)

steven · Tennis legend

paulisi wrote:
I didn't hear the interview, but I was told they had one method of coaching and that method was forced on all players, whether it suited their game or not.

Yet Andy Murray once said the problem here was that they didn't have a consistent coaching style like the Spanish do ...

Having said that, I think he has also criticised the LTA in the past for harming Jamie's prospects by forcing him to play a certain style, so it may depend which day you catch him on or (perhaps more likely) he does have something coherent to say about this issue but the media just like to manufacture 'good' LTA-bashing headlines from what he says.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

steven wrote:
paulisi wrote:
I didn't hear the interview, but I was told they had one method of coaching and that method was forced on all players, whether it suited their game or not.
Yet Andy Murray once said the problem here was that they didn't have a consistent coaching style like the Spanish do ...
Having said that, I think he has also criticised the LTA in the past for harming Jamie's prospects by forcing him to play a certain style, so it may depend which day you catch him on or (perhaps more likely) he does have something coherent to say about this issue but the media just like to manufacture 'good' LTA-bashing headlines from what he says.

If I understood Andy right though, he was more complaining that the NTC had a 'one-size fits all coaching approach Plan A' for 6 months, then it was all change and it was' one-size fits all coaching approach Plan B' for 6 months etc. etc.

i.e. a blanket approach that chops and changes all the time, throwing the baby out with the bathwater each time.

Whereas the Spanish style is more consistent, and reliable and you know where you are with it. So, even though it has maybe a smaller range of variety, you get a solid base and then can develop your own style on top.

steven · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
steven wrote:
paulisi wrote:
I didn't hear the interview, but I was told they had one method of coaching and that method was forced on all players, whether it suited their game or not.
Yet Andy Murray once said the problem here was that they didn't have a consistent coaching style like the Spanish do ...
Having said that, I think he has also criticised the LTA in the past for harming Jamie's prospects by forcing him to play a certain style, so it may depend which day you catch him on or (perhaps more likely) he does have something coherent to say about this issue but the media just like to manufacture 'good' LTA-bashing headlines from what he says.

If I understood Andy right though, he was more complaining that the NTC had a 'one-size fits all coaching approach Plan A' for 6 months, then it was all change and it was' one-size fits all coaching approach Plan B' for 6 months etc. etc.
i.e. a blanket approach that chops and changes all the time, throwing the baby out with the bathwater each time.
Whereas the Spanish style is more consistent, and reliable and you know where you are with it. So, even though it has maybe a smaller range of variety, you get a solid base and then can develop your own style on top.

Thanks - I hadn't read that but it sounds more than plausible!

paulisi · Tennis legend

That sounds about right - it will suit some, but not all.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

paulisi wrote:
That sounds about right - it will suit some, but not all.

One could probably say 'it will suit most, but not all'.

As I do tend to think that some tennis players are a little precious when it comes to talking about coaching/training etc.

I fully understand Andy Murray's dilemma as to what sort of coach he needs, or Roger Federer etc.

Sounds harsh, maybe, but when a guy who's WR 500 says that a certain sort of coaching isn't for him, I can't help feel 'well, give it a go, who are you to say? you might be WR 250 if you just stuck to it and stopped asking questions'

A lot of players are in academies, even after juniors. Personality and atmosphere are important but there's very little tailor-made coaching, people tend to follow a routine. Even Gulbis, Mr Maverick himself, got up at the same time as all the others and did group training, and gym work when he was told etc. etc.

A premier league football coach doesn't come up with 30 different training schedules for all the rank and file members of his team.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Sorry to disagree a bit CD, but I can see why WR500 might be picky about coaching. Some coaching environments are all about results and some players find that negative and prefer an environment based on effort and attainment, some like lots of basket drills where exact repetition hones skills, others find this makes them slow and prefer the dynamism of always hitting with a partner, some coaches like all their pupils to have the same tried and tested stroke production and tactics, others prefer to let individuals develop their own style and strengths, some players like training with others above their standard, some don't, some like big training groups, some don't etc etc

As with all things, the more you put into your training in any environment, the more you will get out. Tennis is a short career , though, and with so many different approaches to coaching it's important that a player doesn't spend too long languishing in a place which doesn't really suit him. The right fit will always speed up development.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I know what you mean, The O, and don't completely disagree.

But I also think that some players are very quick to blame results on their coaches' coaching methods, and to look to change things, and to find excuses, basically.

I think one of the reasons that the Spanish and French are so successful is that, by and large, this doesn't happen (hence, Andy's point).

They both say you've 'got to learn the trade first'.

Everyone has preferences but if you find a reasonable fit and then just buckle down and do it, then less time is spent questioning and more is spent doing.

I also, from quite a lot of experience with older juniors, don't really buy off on the supposed preferences. i.e. a 18 year-old hasn't had much experience and that which he;s had has largely been as a junior and in a certain context. I've seen countless 17 year-olds holding forth with major conviction as to what they like and what they don;t like, and then, 6 months later when they've just had some great results, suddenly it's all change and now they really like whatever it was they claimed they didn;t like before.

NB should add that the one exception to this is the point about personality - it's true that things have to gel along the major lines. Although, again, it's not the be-all-and-end-all and, in a group situation (as most training up to the very top level is nowadays) it's not always critical either.

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Monday 8th of September 2014 12:07:35 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Does anyone know how this will affect funding, and the Bonus top-up scheme ?

Will certain players still have a 'player funding agreement' ? Paid to them, based wherever they are ?

Presumably, Kyle will still have a contract i.e. he's not paying Greg out of his pocket. But Liam and Luke ? (and others ?) Does their funding carry on ?

Or has all that been canceled ? And the bonus scheme will apply to everyone ?