Week 28 - Great Britain F13 ($15,000) - Ilkley (grass)

steven · Tennis legend

Week 28 - Great Britain F13 ($15,000) - Ilkley (grass)

Spectator · All-time great

Some nice wins and puzzling losses. Mr Watson's isn't a name I think I've heard much before: where does he train? Quite a remarkable two victories!

-- Edited by Spectator on Thursday 10th of July 2014 06:21:57 PM

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Watson has a Bad birthday, particularly if he is off to US university in the autumn. That said if he's able to rack points up on a consistent basis in futures events through the summer and gets another crack at the junior slams wouldn't it be in his best interests to defer for a year and see how it goes? Please correct me if I am wrong about eligibility.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I'd have thought the opposite - that it's good for him to go and see how college goes and try playing some futures/challengers next summer and see if he should then drop out (to which the answer would be probably not).

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Obviously wish him well which ever way he goes, but got the feeling from one of the LTA coaches that the US university guys are the second tier very much the back door into elite competitive tennis and these are some pretty big wins. If he is eligible for another year of junior slams and has the support, which I suppose is the real question, he could perhaps have transitioned into a top prospect by this time next year. Memphis will give him 4 years of top quality tennis but not consistent with junior slam or futures and one has to be optimistic for him after taking out an experienced top 400 player. What a great week for him more power to his elbow.

Spectator · All-time great

Interesting if the LTA think that, given that almost all of the top US boys barring Kozlov (including the junior Wimbledon champion) have said they are going to start at university ... and that none of the GB players who have not gone to university is ahead of Messrs Klahn, Johnson or Rola (let alone the older Nedovyesov, Devvarman, Isner or Anderson).

In all seriousness, given the low rate of success in GB transitions to seniors, the general unlikelihood of making a decent living from tennis, and the growing success of the top university players, if the LTA is discouraging anyone other than the likes of Mr Edmund from going to university, one wonders if they are holding the best interests of the people in question at heart. This would be true across the board: I am inclined to think that Mr Golding, for example, who seems as if he has precisely the combination of intelligence and skill to be part of a top university team, would have benefited a great deal from at least a few years in such a situation.

-- Edited by Spectator on Friday 11th of July 2014 06:41:46 AM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I couldn't agree more Spectator.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Steven's Top 25 men's table looks like a bit of a bloodbath this week - pink everywhere in the main bit, and guys in the 'other' section still going strong.

The bottom half of the draw is pretty wide open (with Neil obviously as the best ranked guy but not in the best of form). There's a guaranteed 8 points and 15 points going begging - that's going to make a big impact.

LordBrownof · Futures level

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I remember reading something from Sarah Borwell (a now advocate for US college tennis) that it wasn't possible to defer a place for a year. I remember thinking it was pretty strict!

For me it also raises the question about the state of UK University tennis too. Should/could the LTA devote more time and financial resources into making UK University tennis a viable (and competitive of course) option? I realise this would take a few years and lots of money, but in the long run feels to me like it could provide that missing step.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

It would seem to me pretty fair not to be able to defer a sports scholarship for a year.

i.e. fine to defer an academic place, but each tennis programme is quite small, they only give a limited number of scholarships, based on their specific needs for that particular year's tennis team - it'd be messy if people were allowed to defer a couple of months prior to the year starting.

I'm not sure uni tennis would work here but why not? I know that there is some discontent in the States that so many foreign students are getting tennis scholarships - quite a lot of people think that college tennis should not be about filling your team with high-ranking foreigners at the expense of US college kids. And you can see the argument . . . Some French kids are going now (which was unheard of ten years back), I know that Tennis Australia promotes it (about Aussie 100 kids at the last figures I saw), there's over 250 or whatever GB kids there . . . So there might possibly be a backlash.

huntley93 · Strong Club Player

i see people here talking about uk uni tennis, i play and will be captain of Aberdeen University 3rd team next year so can give some insight. From scottish uni tennis's point of view generally all the top players at each uni played county cup at u18 and tier 1 is a very high standard with the top players playing futures qualifying, infact the top player from st andrew uni beat clay crawford in the national play offs.

with regards to scholarships however i think it is just stirling that offer them in scotland, infact last year they had 12 scholarships on offer which is 3 team worth of players who play national level as well as funding to play futures etc and they get extentions on deadlines for their course work. their 1st and 2nd team were both in BUCS northern premier last year and their 2nd team thrashed loughborough 1st team. however at aberdeen anyway there is not a coach to take the teams for training but we are looking to change that next year and i think it is up to each uni personally with regards to employing a coach.

but personally i have loved every minute of university tennis in aberdeen the last 2 years and in scotland we a running competitings reguarly at weekends for players who arn't in the teams as well as promoting local lta competitions. hope this kind of helps

Spectator · All-time great

At a guess, that would depend on how the funding went. My guess is that for schools that are offering athletic scholarships, they will have a limited number. So if they offer a four-year scholarship starting in 2014/15 and the person defers, things start to get complicated. If they "hold" it for the deferring student, they are down one for 2014/15; if they give it to another student and commit to holding one next year for the deferrer, then they may find that the next year, they don't have enough scholarships to get the other students they want. For schools that don't offer athletic scholarships (eg the Ivy League), I wouldn't think that there would be an issue about deferring.

But that's all just off-the-top-of-the-head and may not be accurate.

And yes, I've also wondered whether putting more resources into having more viable UK university tennis would be a good investment. Feels as if it would be. At present it feels as though Stirling is quite successful, and Bath and Loughborough ... but beyond that, it's not terribly strong. I don't even know where people at the university near us would practice if they wanted to do so. (NB: There is a BUCS tennis strategy: www.bucs.org.uk/page.asp)

Edit: Thanks, CD and especially Huntley93, for the intervening posts! Great to get a firsthand perspective.

-- Edited by Spectator on Friday 11th of July 2014 10:14:14 AM

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Where elite professional tennis is the goal ie in top 30 unless you have a scholarship to Stanford and are a genuine intellectual high flier I can't see the point. I accept totally that that is not the goal or an unrealistic goal for many of our players but Golding, Bambridge , Broady, O' Mara are a crop of players one would aspire to have close to the top 100 with one or two surprising us and to play lots of challenger tennis learning their craft playing mature players. Memphis is a party college takes basketball seriously but their stars are genuinely one and done. No top top player stays longer, they do a year of college because they have to.

Footballers need to, you need to avoid the NFL draft until your close to physical maturity no matter how good you are it's worth staying in college until your a junior. Soccer complete waste of time unless perhaps for goalies if you want to play in the premier league, the conference is more challenging than college soccer. Like goalies golfer don't peak until 28-36 so plenty of time.

With 120 plus AA colleges that's a hell of a lot of tennis scholars, and admittedly the AA champions progress but that's a lot of athletes who do something other than sport (that's how they advertise athletic scholarships) we can't afford to let our best be coached by anything other than the best. Kyle was transitioned beautifully from top junior through ITF by beachy, if we are to optimise the potential of our top 4-5 juniors each year and get more players in the top 100 we need to nurture them in this way, there are lots of distractions in college, early introduction to mens competitive tennis co-ordinate by a cohort of coaches who have been their and know how to make that transition.

paulisi · Tennis legend

Conspiracy theory time - Marcus Daniell has made the main draw in a challenger in Canada next week and may want to catch an earlier flight, so might not give 100% today.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I take your point Oakland, but I don;t agree.

There will always be some top exceptions (and continuing academic studies is not for everyone, tennis or not).

But in a sport where you reach your prime at 28 and barely any under-21s are in the top 100, what is the point of trying to hack it, alone, at age 19, say, through futures when there are superb tennis programmes laid on where you can get top coaching, top facilities, top matches etc. etc. ? And it's all free (effectively).

As to worrying that we are allowing our best players to be coached by 'not the best', it makes me sad that I find that quite funny. I'm a big fan of Colin Beecher but some of the others? Really ? Using Kyle as your sole example is not very helpful; what about Neil P ? Or Ash ? They were full-time at the NTC. As were many others in recent years who have completely fallen by the wayside. It's not a successful system.