Week 27 - USA F19 ($10,000) - Pittsburgh, PA (clay)

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

RE: Week 27 - USA F19 ($10,000) - Pittsburgh, PA (clay)

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Absolutely gutted.

philwrig · Hall of fame

Tough ending, but so many positives to take forward looking ahead.

steven · Tennis legend

Toby: "Gutted for the loss but I would have signed up for how it ended considering I was going to pull out before my 1st round with a neck spasm..."

RJA · Hall of fame

Bob in Spain wrote:
Absolutely gutted.

Strangely it is always these type of defeats by lower ranked Brits that I really like that I find the hardest to take.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

RJA wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:
Absolutely gutted.
Strangely it is always these type of defeats by lower ranked Brits that I really like that I find the hardest to take.

Yup. And this one hurt big time - being Toby's 1st final and that he had MP in the TB. I really feel for him.

philwrig · Hall of fame

RJA wrote:
philwrig wrote:
Even in defeat, I think Liam stepped it up this week, so that is a positive going forward, but great to see Toby make the finals, had a very solid progressive season so far so long may that continue.
He was taken to 3 sets by an unranked player and by a player outside the top 1000. He beat Luke who is also in terrible form and was then comfortably beaten by a 26 year old ranked 711 (CH of 485 5 years ago). I see nothing in these results that can reasonably described as stepping it up.

I suppose the way I look at it, is that Liam got through another round and also beat Bambo in straight sets, a player that always causes him problems. I'm sure we'd all like to see Liam dominate tournaments like this without dropping a set, but in reality the senior tournaments are much tougher and it will take time, but I'm confident Liam will make the necessary improvements to his game and continue to progress, but for sure it won't be a straight line. Alot of the top 1990 guys are only now starting to really reach their potential after many years of plateauing, showing that at senior level the physical aspects are so much tougher to get on top of and I feel we have to be patient.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

philwrig wrote:
RJA wrote:
philwrig wrote:
Even in defeat, I think Liam stepped it up this week, so that is a positive going forward, but great to see Toby make the finals, had a very solid progressive season so far so long may that continue.
He was taken to 3 sets by an unranked player and by a player outside the top 1000. He beat Luke who is also in terrible form and was then comfortably beaten by a 26 year old ranked 711 (CH of 485 5 years ago). I see nothing in these results that can reasonably described as stepping it up.
I suppose the way I look at it, is that Liam got through another round and also beat Bambo in straight sets, a player that always causes him problems. I'm sure we'd all like to see Liam dominate tournaments like this without dropping a set, but in reality the senior tournaments are much tougher and it will take time, but I'm confident Liam will make the necessary improvements to his game and continue to progress, but for sure it won't be a straight line. Alot of the top 1990 guys are only now starting to really reach their potential after many years of plateauing, showing that at senior level the physical aspects are so much tougher to get on top of and I feel we have to be patient.

I think this highlights something we are poor at as a nation - the physical aspects and I think it is why we have strong juniors and why the transition to seniors seems so difficult for our players. Having travelled the junior international circuit for a number of years, I am always struck by the high skill level shown in general by our kids and yet by how 'weedy' they seem compared to their foreign counterparts. I think it reflects the general approach to junior coaching in this country focussing on technique and footwork with fitness as an optional bolt on extra. This reaps huge benefit in the juniors but slows up progress in the seniors. Talking to overseas coaches, I get the impression that strength and conditioning is taken more seriously at a younger age and is seen as an integral part of the tennis experience.

Now I know these statements are a huge generalisation, but I do think there is substance in them. I know our players do get in the gym but this often really only happens seriously and forms a large part of their training as they approach the seniors. I suspect it is due to the way tennis is structured over here with parents paying by the hour and not seeing fitness as useful or as worth their cash as tennis skills. In many other countries it seems that you pay for a course or a term or a block of tennis which then covers all aspects including fitness and strength.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Some very fair points, The Optimist, especially about the pay structure. The club I was at, for the top youngsters, offered two tennis sessions a week plus one fitness session. You paid for the year. And if you didn't come to the fitness sessions you'd be dropped.

My view as to one of the main reasons that British juniors have so much trouble (in general) moving up to seniors (and which is linked to the above) is that British juniors seem to play so few senior matches.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that your average 15 year-old British player plays very little in terms of competitive tennis against older players. As such, playing only (or mainly) against other 15 year olds, there's very little incentive to develop parts of the game that are vital for adult tennis but have less impact on junior tennis.

All French kids (and, from what I know, Spanish, Italian and German, don't know about East Europe) will be playing at least half their matches against adults by that age. Either team matches or money tournaments. Spanish kids (from what I've been told) will be playing more like 75% of their matches against adults. And they all play a lot of competitive matches too - probably about 70-80 a year.

This helps hugely in terms of match experience (so much more variety if you have to play similar level 20, 30 ,40 and 50 year-olds than if you just play similar level 15 year-olds).

And also highlights the necessity of strength and endurance work - Tom F used to talk about going back to his club in the south of france, after some excellent junior win, and getting his backside kicked by the local club 30 year-old who would run him ragged on the clay court. A humbling experience, he said.