Week 26 - Wimbledon men's main draw

RJA · Hall of fame

RE: Week 26 - Wimbledon men's main draw

RJA · Hall of fame

Evo: 3rd on court 2
James: 2nd on court 3
Kyle: 3rd on court 12
Cox: 2nd on court 18

All televised courts.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Jaffa wrote:
Hi all, hope someone will be able to help with a few queries.

I'm off on Wednesday and Thursday for the first time ever (eek), I was wondering if you can go to court one if you have a centre court ticket.

Also, I am thinking about queuing for a grounds pass on Tuesday. What time should I get there to have a chance?

Cheers, Jaffa

a) No, you can only use the ticket for the court you have been given or as a ground pass.

b) I used to get to London about 7.15 in the morning and go straight to the queue, getting there about an hour later. I nearly always got in with a ground pass before the start of play or just after - but I never tried on the first few days, they may be busier. If you can get there a bit earlier than I did it would be better. At least Andy is playing on Monday, so Tuesday will perhaps not be as in demand for people wanting ground passes mostly to watch the big screen on Aorangi Terrace.

A131 · Intermediate Club Player

RJA wrote:
Spectator wrote:
That's wretched. The two players who have had everything handed to them on a platter get the decent draws, and those who have toiled on their own have terrible ones. I will hope for upsets galore.
I'm sorry but this is just silly. What ever you feel about the treatment of the various players neither Evo or Kyle have "had everything handed to them on a platter". In the case of Evo he was probably due a decent Wimbledon draw after getting Davydenko in 2009 and Mayer in 2011 while Kyle and got drawn against Janowicz last year.
Also with the exception of Smethy no one has a terrible draw. Youzhny's form this year is no where near as good as his ranking suggests and while Chardy is a good player there are plenty of players who would be a far worse draw..

If a player has been given a free ride to the main draw of a grand slam and not have to prove himself in qualifying, as Kyle Edmund has not had to for the second successive year then as far as I'm concerned that is being handed it on a platter. Now I'm not clued up as to how the LTA have treated Edmund but as far as I am aware he has yet to reach the main draw of a grand slam, Masters or any regular ATP tour main event without the aid of a wild card.

Plus if you are accepting or needing a wild card (which one or two posters know I am very much against) to get into an event like this and knowing you are assured £27,000 win or lose that you really don't deserve, then you should be grateful you are in that draw at all - let alone who you might be drawn against. They can't have it both ways. So no, I totally disagree that Evans was due a decent Wimbledon draw because he hadn't earned the right to be there in the first place. I know he's done a bit better the last 12 months but that's not my point.

Sorry, but if all our players, bar Andy Murray & Heather Watson, do end up being knocked out in the first round then they deserve all the stick they get and I really hope the media do tear into them.

indiana · Tennis legend

The WC system may or may not deserve stick. The players DO NOT if they give of their best.

It's kind of similar to the ridicule Alex Bogdanovic was given in many quarters re his results and ranking when he was GB no 2.

It was never his flaming fault that the system couldn't produce a higher ranked GB no 2. He was better than all the rest bar one in GB.

A131 · Intermediate Club Player

indiana wrote:
The WC system may or may not deserve stick. The players DO NOT if they give of their best.

It's kind of similar to the ridicule Alex Bogdanovic was given in many quarters re his results and ranking when he was GB no 2.

It was never his flaming fault that the system couldn't produce a higher ranked GB no 2. He was better than all the rest bar one in GB.

Indy - They might well give their best but if they were all prepared to come through qualifying rather than take the easy option then of course I would be prepared to cut them some slack. But at the end of the day they have applied for these WC's, they have asked to be put in that position, they want the money (which of course is understandable to a degree) so they should take the rough with the smooth.

indiana · Tennis legend

Sorry, A131, I still absolutely disagree with getting at the players in this way.

1) The players should not really be criticised ( or torn into, my gawd ! ) for accepting MD WCs ( technically whether all the Brits have to apply for them, I don't know ). Understandable ? Too right, it's understandable !

2) The players should also not be really criticised ( or torn into ! ) if they give of their best and lose to much higher ranked players.

You have prominently raised an issue re Slam MD WCs, which while maybe only a few like me largely agree with you, many did say they could see the argument.

Again, that is a system tradition thing. Being in such a hurry to condemn the WC players if they lose ( as most, hopefully not all, will ), and being very happy if the media condemn them, seems to me pretty ludicrous and unrealistic.

I was quite impressed when Naomi Cavaday turned a MD WC down ( or didn't apply for one ) a few years ago, largely I believe to do with ranking points and grass matchplay than any principle that she shouldn't have been offered it. Whatever, even then, it was no doubt still a tidy sum not to have automatically accepted.

But I will not criticise these players who do accept MD WCs unless their actual attitude / play seems to me to warrant it.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I agree.

A131, the players attempt to 'come through qualifying' in the other three Grand Slams, and through qualifying for the other WTA/ATP events for most of them, and even through qualifying for the Challengers for some quite recently.

So the fact they accept a WC for the MD when offered one (I also don;t think they actually 'apply' for a WC) seems quite understandable - Lord knows, it's hard enough to make two ends meet on tour as it is, I can;t knock them for accepting a helping hand when offered. (The question, much debated, as to whether the LTA should operate that way is a totally different issue. But I can;t see that the players are at fault for going along with the LTA).

Spectator · All-time great

Firstly, thank you, Indiana, for your characteristically kind and understanding comments earlier in the thread. And thank you, RJA, for some very fair points.

If I had a concern about Mr Smethurst, Mr Cox and Mr Ward receiving relatively tough draws, it was precisely that I would hate to see people who work so hard, and do so without much support, being slated by the press and non-tennis-following public for losing to higher-ranked players. It's an annual ritual, and not an attractive one. The players in question (edit - ie those who have received WCs, including Mr Evans and Mr Edmund) are people who, in a global talent market, have worked very hard indeed to get into the top 250 (or thereabouts, in Mr Edmund's case) in a very demanding sport. It's a phenomenal accomplishment - and one which deserves approbation, not nastiness.

Like others, I have an issue with WCs in principle, as they give an advantage to people in countries with lots of tournaments or high-value tournaments. But the LTA's policy, given its quite strict rules about what you have to have achieved to qualify for a WC, seems one of the more sensible policies around. And if players meet the criteria, I have no problem with their receiving the reward. In Mr Ward's and Mr Evans' cases, in particular, there's also a very strong argument for saying that it would be quite odd not to give MD WCs in your country's Grand Slam to the players who have made a huge contribution to your country's Davis Cup success. You could also extend that to Mr Edmund, as a member of the Davis Cup squad.

None of the players, incidentally, has complained about their draws. It was only outsider plebs like me who were doing so! And I think, A131, that RJA was commenting about "being due" a good draw in terms of probabilities over time, not moral rights.

At any rate, it will be a good day today to see them in action. And I shall continue hoping for lots of rankings upsets!

-- Edited by Spectator on Monday 23rd of June 2014 11:25:08 AM

TMH · Futures qualifying

A131 wrote:
Sorry, but if all our players, bar Andy Murray & Heather Watson, do end up being knocked out in the first round then they deserve all the stick they get and I really hope the media do tear into them.

Disgusting.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

TMH wrote:
A131 wrote:
Sorry, but if all our players, bar Andy Murray & Heather Watson, do end up being knocked out in the first round then they deserve all the stick they get and I really hope the media do tear into them.
Disgusting.

I agree. That's a nasty thing to say.

And, I assume, based on an error. i.e. I imagine that you've singled out Andy and Heather as they did not need wildcards but qualified as of right.

Well, so did JoKo. In fact, she qualified ahead of Heather, if memory serves me right.

And, apart from one, all the others got their wildcards according to a strict application of the LTA's guidelines. In the top 250 and you're in, outside and you're not.

As such, the only one who deserves any stick (if they all crash and burn and you want to hand out blame somewhere) is the LTA, not the players.

(The exception is Kyle who, as mentioned elsewhere, does seem to get preferential treatment which makes his a debatable case but you can hardly with the poor guy ill because of it!).

RJA · Hall of fame

A131 wrote:
Sorry, but if all our players, bar Andy Murray & Heather Watson, do end up being knocked out in the first round then they deserve all the stick they get and I really hope the media do tear into them.

This is both reprehensible* and ridiculous in equal measure. Lets just take the example of Daniel Cox, a player with a terrific attitude who works bloody hard to make the most of what he has got and be the best player he can be. He will most likely lose today against Jeremy Chardy who is a very fine player and you actually want the media to "tear into him" if that happens. I can understand that some people oppose wild cards but to take it out on the players themselves is totally unfair. How many of us, if we were put in Dan's position, would say no to a wild card and a £27K pay day. I certainly wouldn't and I would wager that the vast majority wouldn't either.

*And yes I do mean reprehensible. The way the gutter press in this country treat some people is truly disgusting and I have nothing but contempt for anyone wishing to see this pack of jackals set loose on those whose only crime is to be the 2nd-6th best tennis players in the country and having the temerity to accept an opportunity before them.

indiana · Tennis legend

Jo's bathroom break probably helped break Peng's momentum there ( a bit of a universal issue in the women's game ).

Now, hold, Jo.

indiana · Tennis legend

Oops, wrong thread !

RJA · Hall of fame

Ward on court and dear old Barry Davies in the commentary box.