Andy mutually ends partnership with Ivan

Ratty · County player

RE: Andy mutually ends partnership with Ivan

EddietheEagle · County player

I remain ignorant about what a pro's coach actually does, over and above booking travel arrangements and practice times.

In this particular case - of an absolutely world class, top player - there is only one, essential thing the coach has to do. His role lies in working out to beat the other three, four or five players in his peer group and preparing his player to win those key matches. That's assuming of course the player is still fired with ambition because without that, nothing happens.

Having gone through back surgery, in my view Andy Murray is over rather than under, achieving. Those points he's picked up at RG relieve an awful lot of pressure.

indiana · Tennis legend

I think most folk are aware that we are not dealing with absolute knowledge or proof here, but that is no reason at all not to express thoughts ( such as clear signs of apparent plusses Ivan brought to Andy's game, some publicly attributed by Andy ).

It would be a very very quiet place if noone ventured an opinion until 100% sure. In fact life would be rather quiet generally if folk were stopping to consider 'the confusion of correlation and causation' ( something incidentally I am well aware of, such as in badly considered polls, but I choose to throw in statistical concepts in appropriate places, which is rare on here ).

Anyway, back to Amelie...

indiana · Tennis legend

I heard Ben Rosenberg ( Neil Harman's pal :) ) discussing the US Open on Talksport.

He reckons that a major reason for the hiring of Amelie is that Andy wants to reintroduce much more variety into his game since that kind of style involving changes of pace, more dropshops, generally trying to outwit his opponents generally gives him much more pleasure than the much more one dimensional aggressive style brought to most fore with Ivan Lendl.

I HOPE BEN IS WRONG !!!

RJA · Hall of fame

indiana wrote:
I heard Ben Rosenberg ( Neil Harman's pal :) ) discussing the US Open on Talksport.

He reckons that a major reason for the hiring of Amelie is that Andy wants to reintroduce much more variety into his game since that kind of style involving changes of pace, more dropshops, generally trying to outwit his opponents generally gives him much more pleasure than the much more one dimensional aggressive style brought to most fore with Ivan Lendl.

I HOPE BEN IS WRONG !!!

I certainly hope that Ben is wrong but I have a horrible feeling that he isn't because I can't really see any other rationale for the appointment.

paulisi · Tennis legend

I'd love to see Andy amend his style of play from the monotonous defence baseline to something with more variety.

I hope Ben is right.

Andy is not exciting to watch....

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

I have to admit I liked watching Andy in his earlier days more than I do now. The problem is if he wants to play that way, and also to win more slams, I'm not sure the two are compatible.

RJA · Hall of fame

Madeline wrote:
I have to admit I liked watching Andy in his earlier days more than I do now. The problem is if he wants to play that way, and also to win more slams, I'm not sure the two are compatible.

I completely agree. Early days Andy was much more entertaining to watch but on the whole I preferred watching him win slams.

indiana · Tennis legend

I agree with you two, and for quite some time clung to the belief ( but maybe really hope ) that he could win Slams playing as he did in his early career. Hey look, he can routinely beat Federer ( indeed, perplex him ), quite often Djokovic, even occasionally Nadal, and he's so interesting to watch.

Some others argued that Andy needed to take the initiative much more, particularly in Slams ( where players brought their A game and winning quickly and ruthlessly in early rounds helps ) and that it had to be more part of his normal game. Showing off his variety and defensive skills might be pleasing to watch ( and for him to play ), but it would not win Slams. They were right. I became a convert. He has more skills than just about anyone to fall back on and help in tricky situations, but the basis of his game had to be much more direct.

I actually just recently rewatched some of Andy's Wimbledon final triumph. Lots of ( very good ) consistent thumping of the ball from Andy, arguably monotonous, little variation ( I think Novak ultimately tried more ) and he won. It had possibly taken Ivan to finally ram home the message.

If Andy wants to be much more his previous self, a latter day sort of Mecir, it may be a great watch at times. But he won't be winning more Slams.

Anyway, for the moment it is just Ben's hypothesis and other folk's fear, and seemingly a few folk's wish.

Spectator · All-time great

Mr Rothenberg might have been quoting Kevin Mitchell's profile in The Guardian, in which Mr Murray says precisely that he wanted to return to some of the flair of his early days. It's a very fine, open interview: www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/aug/19/andy-murray-us-open

indiana · Tennis legend

Very interesting revealing article. Just I'm even more concerned now.

But then if he really pulled it off to move from relatively solid winning tennis to much more varied winning tennis, it could be a delight. I just have big doubts that it will work.

Do I want go enter a journey of discovery to see if I am wrong, with in this case the pleasure that would likely bring ? I just don't really know.

imoen · Admin: Moderator+Tennis Legend

good article, thanks for the link Spectator.

To my mind, I'd be happy to see Murray playing with the flair he used to, which as others have said already, was far more enjoyable to watch. I also wouldn't mind if he never won another Slam and I suspect that he is of a similar opinion. Whilst I'm sure he is still highly competitive and hates losing tennis matches I get the impression that, it's now more about the journey than the destination - having achieved his life long ambitions (US Open & Wimbledon) what he wants now is to enjoy his tennis rather than force himself to play the more mundane tennis he had to utilise to achieve those ambitions.

EddietheEagle · County player

Some real insight into the coaching split, this time from the coach himself:-

www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/aug/25/ivan-lendl-andy-murray-split

I still think Murray should have handcuffed Lendl with Gold - the biggest gamechanger in the history of modern tennis.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Ivan is rich enough to be impossible to bribe to do something if he doesn't want to do it. And he obviously hated all the travel.

indiana · Tennis legend

Interesting article.

I wonder how Andy's year would have gone if circumstances had enabled them to stay together.

Certainly more settled initially, and I can't imagine Ivan being supportive of switching back to a more varied / fancy game, so maybe any thoughts of that would have gone on the barnburner.