Winter Olympics

paulisi · Tennis legend

RE: Winter Olympics

steven · Tennis legend

Yes, they did well to pick themselves up after yesterday

(though of course, the Swiss were in the same position) I've been very impressed with how both GB skips seem to have managed to remain so calm when sending down the last stone in these big matches.

Don't get me wrong, I think Steve Cram is doing great job. I'm sure he did know anyway, just got caught up in the moment yesterday. It's an interesting dynamic between him and 'mad Jackie' - they seem to have fun and both obviously really care about what's going on (I wonder if Steve thought he would when he was first handed that job a Winter Olympics or two ago!) - a few *facepalm* moments from both of them (inevitable when they're doing such long commentary stints every day) but I think overall they do a very good job.

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes, Steve and Jackie have been a good pair. I absolutely agree with Steven, it would just have been the moment regarding Steve's slip. He may not be an "expert", but I am sure perfectly understands that the hammer rules for any extra end just follow on as in the other ends ( partly because he's a good professional broadcaster who makes it his job to know such fundamentals and more ). The best of us can slip up in the moment :)

Well done to the GB girls. Held it together well in the last few ends. I sensed a mix of emotions at the end with a ixture of joy and relief. Great that they had won a medal in a tense bronze medal play-off, but a lingering feeling that they could have had and wanted more. Ultimately though they have achieved so much already in curling at a young age and an Olympic bronze is a further addition.

Four guaranteed medals ( well loads of medals with team successes, but you know what I mean ) at a Winter Olympics equals GB's best ever.

indiana · Tennis legend

The tactics re blanking ends or taking a single that's on offer ( maybe sometimes almost being offered ) near the end have been fascinating. It often looks a close call, and much must depend on how you are feeling and playing and how you sense the oppposition are feeling and playing.

Quite amusing in the men's SF how after long consideration, Jackie "decided" that Dave Murdoch should take his single on the eighth end, and as soon as he did just that she then began to doubt herself and him.

TomTraubert · Futures level

top work from eve and her rink

yuna kim was absolutley robbed blind disbelief

indiana · Tennis legend

Good luck to Elise Christie tomorrow in the short track speed skating, but unless she just wins from the front ( a possible option ) I feel she must not compromise herself too much by an effort to stay out of trouble, particularly in the semis and final ( which she will hopefully get to )

Yes, she was in ( and was adjudged to have mainly caused ) one incident, and yes she received online abuse thereafter, mainly apparently from Korean "supporters", but you don't generally win such titles by largely trying to avoid being near your opposition.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

TomTraubert wrote:
top work from eve and her rink

yuna kim was absolutley robbed blind

hear, hear (to both)

philwrig · Hall of fame

indiana wrote:
Good luck to Elise Christie tomorrow in the short track speed skating, but unless she just wins from the front ( a possible option ) I feel she must not compromise herself too much by an effort to stay out of trouble, particularly in the semis and final ( which she will hopefully get to )

Yes, she was in ( and was adjudged to have mainly caused ) one incident, and yes she received online abuse thereafter, mainly apparently from Korean "supporters", but you don't generally win such titles by largely trying to avoid being near your opposition.

Going round the outside with 2 laps to go and winning by a country mile, like she did in the heats would do just fine.

steven · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
TomTraubert wrote:
top work from eve and her rink

yuna kim was absolutley robbed blind

hear, hear (to both)

I certainly agree with the first bit biggrin

I don't agree with the second bit though - I thought the standard in the women's free skating was amazingly high but I preferred Sotnikova to Kim. Kim's jumps were cleaner but I don't think she finishes them off quite as well. Even though her landings are amazingly soft, to me she doesn't finish anything through her body (arms, etc) quite as well as the best Russians do. That said, going purely on the quality of the jumps, I'd have put Kim first. Indeed, if you break down the scores, so did the judges.

However, while Kim's jumps were cleaner than Sotnikova's (a lot cleaner in the case of the 3-jump combination, but the Russian did get a negative GOE mark for that, offset by the fact that she was doing a 3-2-2 combination compared to Kim's 2.5(Axel)-2-2), in my opinion Sotnikova's spins were dramatically better than Kim's.

If you look at the detailed breakdown of the scores (hit the +'s on http://www.sochi2014.com/en/figure-skating-ladies-free-skating), it becomes clear that the main differences were:

- Sotnikova's base score was about 4 points higher (i.e. she was attempting a more difficult program - objective not subjective)
- her much higher GOE scores for her spins offset Kim's higher GOE scores for the jumps

You could argue that Kim should have been further ahead in the component scores (she was ahead on those but not by much), but even if Kim had been marked 0.5 higher than Sotnikova on every one of the elements that make up the component scores (which would have meant near-impossibly high marks), I don't think she would have won.

So while I can understand that some people preferred Kim and others Sotnikova, I don't think it's fair to say that Kim was robbed. Under the new scoring system, there is obviously still plenty of scope for subjective judgements, but there isn't the same scope for rigging results that there used to be, and actually I think the new system has been very well thought out.

Kim does what she does extremely well but tends to play it slightly safe. Often (more often that not, probably) that's a very good idea but it does make her vulnerable to someone doing a harder routine who, for once, does it with next to no mistakes. That again seems to me to strike the right balance.

I have to admit, before Kim's marks came up, Robin Cousins almost had me convinced that it was a foregone conclusion that Kim was going to win. Then I remembered that he has always preferred the style of east Asian skaters to that of the Russians. When even he was beginning to worry after watching some of the replays of Kim's performance, I guessed Sotnikova probably had won after all!

indiana · Tennis legend

Very interesting, Steven. I didn't exactly watch every second so was reluctant to get into debate, and I'm not an expert. But I watched most of it, and didn't see it as any clear robbery. And it is indeed rather difficult to rob anyone "blind" under the scoring system that now applies, although yes there is still some scope for interpretation.

Re Elise Christie, Phil, that would be great, but I would think easier said than done in the later stages.

insomniacfolder · Challenger level

Re: Ice Skating
I take your points Steven, as this is one of the topics on which I can bore for hours, I am working on a spirited riposte of considerable length and dullness

Re: Curling
Still hoping against hope for a miracle for Dave Murdoch, to at least close the gap, a great shame it should end this way. Proud of the team nonetheless.

indiana · Tennis legend

Poor Elise, how the fates have conspired. Yes, she has been at fault herself, but the cumulative consequences undoubtably represent really bad luck.

I do understand her apparent latest crime ( though I agree with the pundits, it should be made public and fairly quickly ), i.e. interference on the previous straight which helped get the position she was then undoubtably shoved out of.

This to me was the least clearcut of her crimes, but on an individual basis unfortunately understandable.

Just such a pity that she was by all accounts in great form, and indeed looked it on a number of occasions. She was good enough to have won at least one medal from these games, and clearly didn't seek her various problems. It's just been one of these darned weeks that couldn't really have gone worse.

She's 23 and she fully intends to be around in 4 years. May the Olympic fates rebalance themselves...

indiana · Tennis legend

Hard luck, Dave Murdoch and team. But it wasn't close and on this occasion he was left with too many miracles to attempt, and it just wasn't happening. He achieved the great miracle with his last shot in the play-off match just to get GB into the semis.

Really well done to GB and to Canada.

paulisi · Tennis legend

I think nerves got the better of the curlers today and they never got their A game going.

As for Elise - is it bad luck or bad tactics? To get DQ'ed 3 times in three different events is somewhat odd. The talent is clearly there, but she seems mentally fragile and needs better tactics i.e go from the front and avoid the trouble.

Ratty · County player

I know nothing about ice-skating, but when did that ever stop me?

Elise Christie's USP seems to be the same as Mark Cavendish's - slipstreaming the oppo, then an explosive burst of speed in the closing stages. Leading from the front doesn't seem to be an option.

So her problem is that the radius of the track is so small that the inside line gives a massive advantage, and so people fight for it - and often crash into each other. Road cyclists of course sprint in a straight line and don't have the same problem.