Davis Cup 2014 - World Group Quarter-Final - 4-6 Apr - ITA v GB

indiana · Tennis legend

RE: Davis Cup 2014 - World Group Quarter-Final - 4-6 Apr - ITA v GB

indiana · Tennis legend

Phil, to me, a 25% chance of independence remains a frightenly high chance !

Message to self - I think folk may have got where you stand on this by now.

RJA · Hall of fame

indiana wrote:
Some may think I am being a bit naive ( maybe I am ), but I remain unconvinced that Andy is effectively picking the squad / team / doubles players. Whatever was the case in John Lloyd's time may just be another sympton of one of the most unsuitable Davis Cup captains ever. Of course I would imagine that Andy continues to have at least strong input.

I don't think that Andy picks the team, although I think he effectively could. My point was that if Andy says "I want to play doubles" no sane captain is going to deny that request, even if they think it is wrong choice.

PS: 24th March 2016 is currently the date planned for "Independence Day"

-- Edited by RJA on Tuesday 8th of April 2014 01:42:26 PM

PaulM · Tennis legend

I'm going to be a bit unusual here and say that I don't think Fognini was particularly inspired at all, I just thought Andy was very poor by his own, incredibly high, standards. He was tired, lethargic, unprepared for the surface, not fully fit and the result was that he slow, missing balls, and hitting second serves that would be powderpuff on the WTA.

Fognini is what he always is, capable of brilliance, capable of rubbish, and everything in between. He played a passage of good tennis, got his nose in front, and Andy wasn't good enough on the day to reel him back in. Fabio did not play consistently brilliant tennis on Sunday that made him completely unplayable.

I certainly don't agree with comments that have been made that only two people in the world could have beaten Fabio that day.

I also think picking Ross was an odd choice. I had wondered if the plan would have been to rest Andy if we were 2-0 up, but then if that had been the case we'd have wanted Andy to play doubles to give the best chance of killing the tie, given we'd have (rightly) been concerned about potentially losing both reverse singles. So there was no scenario where I could see Andy not playing - although I suppose the illness threw that into doubt, and might have forced Leon to pick Ross as there was a risk Andy physically wouldn't be able to do the doubles and he didn't want to effectively write the rubber off.

FWIW I think James was the right choice for singles #2, but if he'd also selected Dan it would have given him an alternative for the Sunday if he felt he needed it. Whilst a specialist doubles pairing can be a good thing, what you ideally want (which we don't have) is a good doubles player who can also be a very useful #3 singles player if you need them.

A1 tennis academy · Satellite level

Team is only as good as the captain & nobodys bigger than the team ! even god .

I think that leon with hindsight would admit that should have played Fleming with Jon Marray on clay but grass or hard indoor at home would have been different

Jon Marray should have been option instead of ross whose not fully fit .

Andy murray great player but not a clay specialist - as you Guys know more rallies on clay which taxed Andy who looked out of salts .

Same selections home hard v Italia with Evo we win min 3-2 .

2015 bit of luck get home ties Evo back on hard &

2 of top 3 doubles players in squad

My choice colin Fleming /Jamie Murray or Jon marray

If on hard or grass and Andy fully fit then he Coukd play 3 doubles with colin or Jamie .

Ross on back burner and Back in squad once into top 75 doubles . Marcus in as a doubles understudy

-- Edited by A1 tennis academy on Tuesday 8th of April 2014 10:29:53 PM

-- Edited by A1 tennis academy on Tuesday 8th of April 2014 10:35:20 PM

-- Edited by A1 tennis academy on Tuesday 8th of April 2014 10:36:45 PM

RJA · Hall of fame

Sorry but I disagree. Whatever the surface Andy Murray is Britain's best tennis player in either singles or doubles. Any British pairing that did not include Murray would probably have lost the doubles tie.

indiana · Tennis legend

When Marcus has had very much more doubles experience and success at at least challenger level for starters and risen very significantly from WR 243 and GB no 14, he may be then worth a mention as a Davis Cup understudy. That is clearly still some way off, though he is clearly moving in the right direction.

Very different rules seem to being applied by Gary re rankings for Ross, a previously proven performer and underanked now for reasons we know very well, and others, as against Marcus. It's frankly a bit of a joke and I don't see how it helps Marcus, who I want to see do well.

I know you admire frankness, Gary :)

Personally, speaking from afar, I would have had Dom, Jonny Marray or indeed Jamie Murray in the squad before Ross just now. But whatever, when all are fully fit, I very much agree with RJA that Andy is currently clearly part of our best pair on any surface, probably with Colin, and I do think it is very debatable whether any other GB pair would have won that doubles rubber in Naples

TMH · Futures qualifying

I don't understand why Ross is being completely written off. He and Colin were a pretty mean doubles team before Ross got cancer. I see no reason they can't get back to that level in the future.

A1 tennis academy · Satellite level

TMH wrote:
I don't understand why Ross is being completely written off. He and Colin were a pretty mean doubles team before Ross got cancer. I see no reason they can't get back to that level in the future.

There isn't any reason why Ross won't back and even to a new PB in doubles but what I am saying is you put your best possible doubles team out especially if saving andy murrays legs for 2 clay singles and

should not ignore the current Top 100 doubles list Where are 3 players that have combined well with colin Fleming well in the past Jon Marray ( Wimbledon Doubs champ ) , jamie murray , and ken skupski .

Longer term why not utilise in training the younger all GB pair Marcus & Lewis and Skupski bros in training only with Davis cup doubles pair in order to invest in the future .

Marcus & Lewis are highest ranked GB combined average age of 23 & under . Invest in the youngsters for the future .

-- Edited by A1 tennis academy on Wednesday 9th of April 2014 09:15:58 AM

A1 tennis academy · Satellite level

indiana wrote:
When Marcus has had very much more doubles experience and success at at least challenger level for starters and risen very significantly from WR 243 and GB no 14, he may be then worth a mention as a Davis Cup understudy. That is clearly still some way off, though he is clearly moving in the right direction.

Very different rules seem to being applied by Gary re rankings for Ross, a previously proven performer and underanked now for reasons we know very well, and others, as against Marcus. It's frankly a bit of a joke and I don't see how it helps Marcus, who I want to see do well.

I know you admire frankness, Gary :)

Personally, speaking from afar, I would have had Dom, Jonny Marray or indeed Jamie Murray in the squad before Ross just now. But whatever, when all are fully fit, I very much agree with RJA that Andy is currently clearly part of our best pair on any surface, probably with Colin, and I do think it is very debatable whether any other GB pair would have won that doubles rubber in Naples

Frank & honest in persuit of GB winning Davis which we can do in Next 3 years while still have a GS champion available we would also need another top 100 singles player I think Dan Evans is that man & a bit of luck home advantage huge in this competition where home advantage worth an extra rubber eg I believe we beat Italy at home last week on indoors with dan Evans , and colin /Jon Marray ( or Ross's when fully fit and back to top 100 ) & obviously Andy .

Do draw and home tie advantage make a big difference .

I think Marcus is 3 years off a davis cup debut and hopefully with Lewis I believe in 3 years they should be top 60

Doubles and still just below their peak as doubles players - I am saying earned right to become under study's based on

Age v results and 10 doubles titles in 6 months &. Vertical climb in rankings

-- Edited by A1 tennis academy on Wednesday 9th of April 2014 09:22:47 AM

-- Edited by A1 tennis academy on Wednesday 9th of April 2014 09:31:04 AM

A1 tennis academy · Satellite level

indiana wrote:
When Marcus has had very much more doubles experience and success at at least challenger level for starters and risen very significantly from WR 243 and GB no 14, he may be then worth a mention as a Davis Cup understudy. That is clearly still some way off, though he is clearly moving in the right direction.

Very different rules seem to being applied by Gary re rankings for Ross, a previously proven performer and underanked now for reasons we know very well, and others, as against Marcus. It's frankly a bit of a joke and I don't see how it helps Marcus, who I want to see do well.

I know you admire frankness, Gary :)

Personally, speaking from afar, I would have had Dom, Jonny Marray or indeed Jamie Murray in the squad before Ross just now. But whatever, when all are fully fit, I very much agree with RJA that Andy is currently clearly part of our best pair on any surface, probably with Colin, and I do think it is very debatable whether any other GB pair would have won that doubles rubber in Naples

GB no10 based on ATP rankings & no9 points earned this year very high singles ranking for a GB doubles player in the top 250 doubles . It be interested to compare Colin's singles ranking & doubles ranking at the same age of 23

RJA · Hall of fame

TMH wrote:
I don't understand why Ross is being completely written off. He and Colin were a pretty mean doubles team before Ross got cancer. I see no reason they can't get back to that level in the future.

I am certainly not writing off Ross but I always thought the chances of him ever being the same again were 50/50 at best. His surprise appointment as tournament director of Queen's also leads me to believe that he himself knows there is a chance that he will never get back to his best and is looking at opportunities for his post playing career.

RJA · Hall of fame

A1 tennis academy wrote:
indiana wrote:
When Marcus has had very much more doubles experience and success at at least challenger level for starters and risen very significantly from WR 243 and GB no 14, he may be then worth a mention as a Davis Cup understudy. That is clearly still some way off, though he is clearly moving in the right direction.

Very different rules seem to being applied by Gary re rankings for Ross, a previously proven performer and underanked now for reasons we know very well, and others, as against Marcus. It's frankly a bit of a joke and I don't see how it helps Marcus, who I want to see do well.

I know you admire frankness, Gary :)

Personally, speaking from afar, I would have had Dom, Jonny Marray or indeed Jamie Murray in the squad before Ross just now. But whatever, when all are fully fit, I very much agree with RJA that Andy is currently clearly part of our best pair on any surface, probably with Colin, and I do think it is very debatable whether any other GB pair would have won that doubles rubber in Naples

GB no10 based on ATP rankings & no9 points earned this year very high singles ranking for a GB doubles player in the top 250 doubles . It be interested to compare Colin's singles ranking & doubles ranking at the same age of 23

You can't possibly make a reasonable comparison because at the age of 22 Colin took a two year break from professional tennis and went back to university to complete his degree.

-- Edited by RJA on Wednesday 9th of April 2014 10:00:45 AM

indiana · Tennis legend

I do tend to think that it is unnecessary ( especially on this forum ) to keep repeating that home advantage in Davis Cup makes a big difference. It was also overused by the BBC to a more general audience.

How much depends very much on the circumstances and personnel involved. "Home advantage worth an extra rubber", which you have said before, is really just a line. In practical terms it will often be more.

Good to see that Jamie Murray has lately been remembered after you recently having Marcus fifth in line now for Davis Cup doubles after Andy, Colin, Jonny and Ken. Dom still seems out of it with you after somehow managing to lose in 4 sets to some American twins when partnering Colin. Personally, I would have had Dom in the squad in Italy.

indiana · Tennis legend

Sorry, but Marcus is indeed GB no 14 doubles player based on ATP rankings, behind in order : Dom, Jamie M, Colin, Jonny, Ken, Neal, Andy, Jamie D, Dan S, Brydan, Ed, Sean, and Dave. For the few months of this year, I don't know.

I have no wish to put Marcus down, when he has so clearly been on the rise, but just clarifying.