Davis Cup 2014 - World Group Quarter-Final - 4-6 Apr - ITA v GB

RJA · Hall of fame

RE: Davis Cup 2014 - World Group Quarter-Final - 4-6 Apr - ITA v GB

EddietheEagle · County player

I think some men in kilts got Fognini riled but it all rebounded. A few gestures in riposte and the place was turned into a cauldron. It was a completely different atmosphere after that. The Italians got behind their man and the odd cretin plagued Murray with cries of 'loser' to put him off between his serves and which seemed to me to have its intended effect.

Murray picking himself for doubles was a high risk tactic which failed. And Murray shouldn't be picking the team anyway. Smith needs to build confidence among his doubles players and letting Murray pick the team doesn't do that. I don't think he's a John McEnroe either when it comes to doubles. He looked knackered at times during the doubles, so his preparation for a battle with Fognini (which I believe he was well capable of winning) was non-existent as were his match play tactics.

indiana · Tennis legend

Your source for Andy picked himself for the doubles, Eddie ?

Consulting with Andy as to how he is feeling and whether he is ready to / wants to play in the doubles is quite different from letting him decide.

If he felt fit enough, it is clearly a pick many would have gone for and I am far from convinced that Colin / Ross would have won the doubles, which was a vital rubber for GB to win to retain a reasonable chance of winning the tie overall.

Yes, he may have been more effected than anticipated by that virus before the tie began, but hindsight is wonderful, and whether any other overall outcome than an Italian win would have been achieved by alternative strategy is very debatable.

EddietheEagle · County player

And what's your source that he didn't, particularly in view of Lloyd's recent comments on his time as captain? It's virtually a given that one supreme player among mere mortals will continue to influence and decide the pick more or less. As to the doubles selection, hindsight doesn't come into it. What on earth was the newly-appointed director of the Queens ATP even doing in Italy as a second string doubles choice? It doesn't exactly build confidence among those doubles players who on current form and ranking would have been the more sensible choice for squad selection. You pick your strongest team for any tie and that wouldn't have included Hutchins for Italy. He was there because he's Andy's mate.

I think the weak link in the overall plan was the choice of Hutchins in the first place. Yes, we could have won the tie with a strategy based on Andy picking up three points. But, as I say, that's an obvious and very high risk strategy which in the circumstances ought to have been abandoned the moment an unfit Murray could no longer be relied on to bring home the bacon. At that point, Smith should have opted for his fallback doubles pairing (if indeed they were a fallback) composed from those with stronger current form who should then have taken over responsibility, for better or worse. Andy was thoroughly dismantled by Fognini with massive help from the crowd and you could tell from the first set he wasn't truly in the match.

You say yourself that Fleming and Hutchins don't convince. I agree.

-- Edited by EddietheEagle on Tuesday 8th of April 2014 09:54:04 AM

-- Edited by EddietheEagle on Tuesday 8th of April 2014 09:58:04 AM

RJA · Hall of fame

I think it is blindingly obvious that If Andy wants to play in the doubles he plays in the doubles.

To be blunt if Andy is so inclined he can probably pick the team, the venue (for home ties), the kit and anything else he wants. Without Andy in the team we haven't got a hope at world group level so if he says, overtly or otherwise, "I will play this tie but the price is X" then there is no way that Leon is going to say no.

stevemcqueen · Futures qualifying

The GB Davis Cup campaign of 2014 has been a good one. We had two very difficult away matches and managed to win one of them. We have the luxuary of not having to play an eliminator later in the year. It is true that Andy was tired on Sunday, and he didn't put in a great performance. He was well beaten though, and I'm not sure he would ever have come out on top with Fognini in such fantastic form. The tie received excellent coverage in the media, it was a great advert for UK tennis.

I have to say that I like the current DC format. I really don't think it needs changing.

huntley93 · Strong Club Player

going to put it out there now. what happens to the davis cup team if scotland becomes indepependent in septempber? (I dont think it will happen). britian will loose both andy,jamie and colin fleming and maybe leon smith

-- Edited by huntley93 on Tuesday 8th of April 2014 10:26:50 AM

paulisi · Tennis legend

I suspect we will not be seeded next year and end up playing a seeded team, but we have a very good chance of a home draw.

Switzerland, Italy, Germany, France i believe would all be at home - possibly more.

Home draws are the key, especially if Dan, James and Kyle can all improve there rankings and get to play at the top level more often.

EddietheEagle · County player

Any Scottish tennis federation could opt to continue under the aegis of the LTA and allow its players to play under the GB flag. That's what they do, sensibly, in Irish rugby.

TMH · Futures qualifying

EddietheEagle wrote:
And what's your source that he didn't, particularly in view of Lloyd's recent comments on his time as captain? It's virtually a given that one supreme player among mere mortals will continue to influence and decide the pick more or less. As to the doubles selection, hindsight doesn't come into it. What on earth was the newly-appointed director of the Queens ATP even doing in Italy as a second string doubles choice? It doesn't exactly build confidence among those doubles players who on current form and ranking would have been the more sensible choice for squad selection. You pick your strongest team for any tie and that wouldn't have included Hutchins for Italy. He was there because he's Andy's mate.

I think the weak link in the overall plan was the choice of Hutchins in the first place. Yes, we could have won the tie with a strategy based on Andy picking up three points. But, as I say, that's an obvious and very high risk strategy which in the circumstances ought to have been abandoned the moment an unfit Murray could no longer be relied on to bring home the bacon. At that point, Smith should have opted for his fallback doubles pairing (if indeed they were a fallback) composed from those with stronger current form who should then have taken over responsibility, for better or worse. Andy was thoroughly dismantled by Fognini with massive help from the crowd and you could tell from the first set he wasn't truly in the match.
You say yourself that Fleming and Hutchins don't convince. I agree.

-- Edited by EddietheEagle on Tuesday 8th of April 2014 09:54:04 AM

-- Edited by EddietheEagle on Tuesday 8th of April 2014 09:58:04 AM

A lot of conclusions being jumped to here.

RJA · Hall of fame

huntley93 wrote:
going to put it out there now. what happens to the davis cup team if scotland becomes indepependent in septempber? (I dont think it will happen). britian will loose both andy,jamie and colin fleming and maybe leon smith

Even if Scotland votes for Independence this September it will be roughly another 18 months before it actually becomes independent.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

RJA wrote:
I think it is blindingly obvious that If Andy wants to play in the doubles he plays in the doubles.

To be blunt if Andy is so inclined he can probably pick the team, the venue (for home ties), the kit and anything else he wants. Without Andy in the team we haven't got a hope at world group level so if he says, overtly or otherwise, "I will play this tie but the price is X" then there is no way that Leon is going to say no.

I agree.

It's all very well to say Leon Smith should chose the team and be strong and decide what's best for the team. But if he gets Andy miffed, then Andy doesn't play and we lose. Simple. Exactly like with John Lloyd: Andy had not interest in working with him and so end of story.

I'm not saying that Andy holds Leon or the team over a barrel but Davis Cup is optional and it's just the practicality of the situation.

indiana · Tennis legend

Coreect, RJA, well at least in principle, because I don't really have any idea on the timescale. But given there would be a hell of a lot to deconstruct and construct it will be I would imagine at least 2 years until "independence day".

But if and when that does occur ( please NOOO !!!! - and I agree it remains unlikely, if not unlikely enough ) I would certainly anticipate a separate Scotland Davis Cup team. Ireland is a rather particular political case and is not a case of a now independent country being part of ( well, really joining up ) with another nation's team, but is a part of an independent nation ( Northern Ireland ) being realligned for some sports. The standard ( and surely expectation ) is for independent countries to go their own way in sport ( quite apart from the fact that Scotland already does in many sports ), and I would imagine that would be the expectation ( if not in some cases the insistance ) of the sports authorities.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Frankly, given we have somehow managed to wriggle our way into having four separate country football teams in major global events, even though we're legally one country (something no other country understands), it would be ironic to keep one Davis Cup team if we were now legally two countries.

philwrig · Hall of fame

What about the fact that Fognini also played doubles.
We won the doubles because Andy played, most onlookers would agree that Andy was the best player on the court that day.
I am also very confident that a completely fresh Andy would have lost his singles on the Sunday anyway against an inspired Fognini.
As for picking Ross, we just don't know, it may have been a little bit early to bring him back into the fold, but the other options weren't materially better to take so difficult to comment.

As for Scottish independence, the bookies odds imply a 25% chance of success with 43% of the vote, so still very unlikely.