Davis Cup 2014 - World Group Quarter-Final - 4-6 Apr - ITA v GB

TMH · Futures qualifying

RE: Davis Cup 2014 - World Group Quarter-Final - 4-6 Apr - ITA v GB

indiana · Tennis legend

Not disputing what I think are your more general thoughts about good singles player and doubles, CD, but the USA are not a good example.

To me, it made absolute sense for them to name the Bryans and probably ( as they did ) secure that point. Their problem was not having two good enough singles players, especially after Isner was out. I just didn't see any better stategy, although one could argue the actual second singles pick.

And as I said earlier, I don't think GB would have named two specialist doubles players in the team, but for Andy's illness. But in the circumstances, it was possibly a sensible precaution.

steven · Tennis legend

The story so far

R1: James Ward WR 161 lost to Fabio Fognini (ITA) WR 13 (= CH) by 6-4 2-6 6-4 6-1
R2: Andy Murray WR 8 beat Andreas Seppi (ITA) WR 38 (CH 18 in 2013) by 6-4 7-5 6-3
R3: Colin Fleming / Andy Murray WR 131 (36+95) beat Simone Bolelli / Fabio Fognini WR 451 (383+68) by 6-3 6-2 3-6 7-5

Sunday

R4: Andy Murray WR 8 v Fabio Fognini (ITA) WR 13 (= CH)
R5: James Ward WR 161 v Andreas Seppi (ITA) WR 38 (CH 18 in 2013)

Murray v Fognini H2H 1-1 - Fabio won 2 & 2 on hard in Montréal in 2007 and Andy won 7-6(11) 6-4 on clay in Monte Carlo in 2009

As even more incentive for both teams (as if any more were needed!), the winners of this tie would be one tie away from a home Davis Cup Final (obviously Switzerland or Kazakhstan might have something to say about that in the semis!) - only CZE, FRA & GER are left in the top half now and both GBR and ITA are due to play all three of them at home if they meet this year.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Indy, I wasn't meaning the US strategy of the USA naming of the Bryans (that's 100% logical).

I meant the GB strategy in the US - i.e. naming a pair of specialist doubles pair who then went on to lose. (Leon was still quite right because they were already 2 up and the Bryans were big favourites).

I think Leon got it right both times but, net net, the 'doubles specialists' lost and the the 'singles specialist as part of the doubles team' won. Just a general remark . . . :)

indiana · Tennis legend

Ah, sorry, CD misinterpreted you. Though as you say, once GB went 2-0 up, it was great to have two specialist doubles players available ( although I guess we could have still just flung a reserve singles player into the doubles ) and rest Andy.

I guess it's a bit horses for courses and Leon seems to have a good feel. And yes, the USA are probably one of the very few teams where picking two specialist doubles players ( assuming the Bryans are available ) is generally a no brainer.

indiana · Tennis legend

If I was the Devil's Advocate, I could point out that the team that selected doubles specialists against us won, and the team that pitched their best singles player into the doubles lost :)

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes, it's true ::))

As always, as you say, horses for courses. Or maybe just a sign of lies, lies and damned statistics (or however that thing goes) Anyway, jsut showing one can always find an example to back a point.

Or maybe that the gap between the top GB singles player and the top doubles players is more marked than in most countries. (Or that Andy is not a very good example as he's a secretly very good doubles player?)

indiana · Tennis legend

Still in a slight state of shock after finding myself agreeing with John Lloyd.

He reckons Andy about 60/40 favourite to beat Fognini.

Jan · Hall of fame

So chuffed with that win by Andy and Colin. Hope Andy has enough in the tank for tomorrow!

Spectator · All-time great

I have always thought - whether accurately or not - that if Mr Murray played doubles more regularly, he'd be a McEnroe type, able to dominate the Tour. Less convinced for some other top singles players: Djokovic, for example, seems much less of a doubles person.

It would be interesting if one or more of the current "second singles" options began to take doubles more seriously. Since they currently don't, and it was possible Mr Murray wouldn't be able to play, you had to have two doubles specialists in order not to be potentially giving away a point. But it does restrict the singles options. But if one or more of the second singles players were part of a viable doubles pairing, more options would be available.

-- Edited by Spectator on Saturday 5th of April 2014 08:31:24 PM

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Spent so much time jumping up and down cheering today, I think I stood up and sat down more times than Messrs Shearer and Savage did for sport relief.
Awesome day. Come on Andy.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Bob in Spain wrote:
Spent so much time jumping up and down cheering today, I think I stood up and sat down more times than Messrs Shearer and Savage did for sport relief.
Awesome day. Come on Andy.

Bob, where exactly are you sitting/jumping up & down? Been trying to spot you in the crowd! wink

imoen · Admin: Moderator+Tennis Legend

indiana wrote:
Still in a slight state of shock after finding myself agreeing with John Lloyd.

He reckons Andy about 60/40 favourite to beat Fognini.

I agree, very scary, luckily he's provided enough things for me to disagree with over the last two days' commentary so it hasn't upset the balance too badly. Anyone else thoroughly confused as to why he was so against the Davis Cup format for most of the doubles today whilst simultaneously saying what a great event it was.

Helen40 · Grand Slam Champion

I'm absolutely emotionally drained after today. Sooo glad we secured two rubbers today. I think James is capable of pulling off an upset. Let's just hope he hasn't got to now. Shame for him if he gets a dead rubber again.

You got to favour it'll be us vs the Swiss in the next round. That'd be an amazing tie to go to!

Cummon team GB!!!!!

korriban · Challenger level

imoen wrote:
indiana wrote:
Still in a slight state of shock after finding myself agreeing with John Lloyd.

He reckons Andy about 60/40 favourite to beat Fognini.
I agree, very scary, luckily he's provided enough things for me to disagree with over the last two days' commentary so it hasn't upset the balance too badly. Anyone else thoroughly confused as to why he was so against the Davis Cup format for most of the doubles today whilst simultaneously saying what a great event it was.
Yes

yes I spotted this bizarre contradiction. To be fair he used th FA Cup as a similar example, and he's right.