Week 6 - ATP 250 - Zagreb (Hard)

Jeff Stelling · Club Coach

RE: Week 6 - ATP 250 - Zagreb (Hard)

indiana · Tennis legend

Hmm, there's nothing very veiled about LordBrownof saying what he witnessed.

Anyway, while he is not alone in still harbouring some concerns re Evo, I am sure he is right that we all hope Evo can really knuckle down and consistently play near to his best.

indiana · Tennis legend

PS : re the specific area of some recent posts, I too would be very reluctant to draw specific conclusions about things said or indeed shouted in the moment by a young man among peers. Most of us say things that escape such ( very probably wrong ) analysis.

Apologies, Jeff Stelling, if that was specifically the issue you had a problem with. I do certainly think we should move on from that.

Jeff Stelling · Club Coach

indiana wrote:
PS : re the specific area of some recent posts, I too would be very reluctant to draw specific conclusions about things said or indeed shouted in the moment by a young man among peers. Most of us say things that escape such ( very probably wrong ) analysis.

Apologies, Jeff Stelling, if that was specifically the issue you had a problem with. I do certainly think we should move on from that.

Yes, sorry for being unclear. I was just annoyed about LordS**tof's determination to constantly speak ill of an individual he claims he knows well in a nudge, wink manner when that is far from removed from the truth. Mr Evans is certainly not homophobic and I know that for a fact (see two can play at the being coy game).

-- Edited by Jeff Stelling on Sunday 9th of February 2014 06:58:30 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes, there are some on this forum that read ( and insinuate from ) far too much that they hear ( or read in say 144 character max tweets my gawd ) and sometimes don't stop to think.

Can be quite amusing ( and before anyway says, I am far from immune from some speculation myself ), but when concerning rather less serious matters than suggested homophobia.

LordBrownof · Futures level

Ok, so you're obviously a friend of Dan's and what I've said has p*ssed you off. Fine, I'm sorry about that. But let me be clear about my experience and if you still disagree with me, then that's your look out.

First of all, I'm gay and I have experience of the word. I know the intention of it. I also happen to watch a lot of tennis. If someone in anger says the word fa**ot as I have witnessed first hand Dan do on several occasions, then I'm inclined to be offended and make certain judgements (can you imagine if the word began with 'n'?). However, in my posts on this board I've not concluded that he's homophobic, I'm merely concerned at his language. I hope he's not homophobic but he's making it very difficult for me.

Second of all, I'm repeating what was in front of me at Wimbledon. It wasn't something I heard second hand or far away but was what was directly in front of me. So much so, I had to move out of the way to let him and his drunk friends past. Now, in every post I've said, consistently, that I hope it's a blip. I'm supportive of Dan, I really hope he knuckles down. Pointing out my experiences of him on this board is to add context to my views.

Those are my facts, they're mine. Don't believe them, whatever. But this is a messageboard about opinions and observations. You may not like mine but that's messageboard life.

Jeff Stelling · Club Coach

LordBrownof wrote:
Ok, so you're obviously a friend of Dan's and what I've said has p*ssed you off. Fine, I'm sorry about that. But let me be clear about my experience and if you still disagree with me, then that's your look out.

First of all, I'm gay and I have experience of the word. I know the intention of it. I also happen to watch a lot of tennis. If someone in anger says the word fa**ot as I have witnessed first hand Dan do on several occasions, then I'm inclined to be offended and make certain judgements (can you imagine if the word began with 'n'?). However, in my posts on this board I've not concluded that he's homophobic, I'm merely concerned at his language. I hope he's not homophobic but he's making it very difficult for me.

Second of all, I'm repeating what was in front of me at Wimbledon. It wasn't something I heard second hand or far away but was what was directly in front of me. So much so, I had to move out of the way to let him and his drunk friends past. Now, in every post I've said, consistently, that I hope it's a blip. I'm supportive of Dan, I really hope he knuckles down. Pointing out my experiences of him on this board is to add context to my views.

Those are my facts, they're mine. Don't believe them, whatever. But this is a messageboard about opinions and observations. You may not like mine but that's messageboard life.

Ok.

Anyway, all very irrelevant hopefully (not re: your opinions obviously). A fine, fine tournament for British Tennis which I'm sure is something we can all agree on.

-- Edited by Jeff Stelling on Sunday 9th of February 2014 08:19:39 PM

korriban · Challenger level

LordBrownof wrote:
Ok, so you're obviously a friend of Dan's and what I've said has p*ssed you off. Fine, I'm sorry about that. But let me be clear about my experience and if you still disagree with me, then that's your look out.

First of all, I'm gay and I have experience of the word. I know the intention of it. I also happen to watch a lot of tennis. If someone in anger says the word fa**ot as I have witnessed first hand Dan do on several occasions, then I'm inclined to be offended and make certain judgements (can you imagine if the word began with 'n'?). However, in my posts on this board I've not concluded that he's homophobic, I'm merely concerned at his language. I hope he's not homophobic but he's making it very difficult for me.

Second of all, I'm repeating what was in front of me at Wimbledon. It wasn't something I heard second hand or far away but was what was directly in front of me. So much so, I had to move out of the way to let him and his drunk friends past. Now, in every post I've said, consistently, that I hope it's a blip. I'm supportive of Dan, I really hope he knuckles down. Pointing out my experiences of him on this board is to add context to my views.

Those are my facts, they're mine. Don't believe them, whatever. But this is a messageboard about opinions and observations. You may not like mine but that's messageboard life.

Well said, Sir! If you see something live with your own eyes and report what you see, whether it happens to go against what most of us WANT to hear or supports it 100%, this is the sort of forum that should stand by you and not accuse you of a single thing. Dan clearly has more baggage than an airport carousel, some of it we know about, some of it we probably don't. We all like a bad boy story, where redemption comes around in the end (Darth Vader, Professor Snape, etc), so let's hope this one turns out well. I have my doubts, but the journey could be fun.........

RJA · Hall of fame

Well I can't make comments on incidents that I didn't witness but what I can say is that I have worked with at least 20 people of a similar age to to Dan. Words like "faggot" and "gay" were frequently used as insults by several of them but there was no homophobia behind it. Now I can understand why some people might take offence to their use of the words but none was ever meant.

korriban · Challenger level

RJA wrote:
Well I can't make comments on incidents that I didn't witness but what I can say is that I have worked with at least 20 people of a similar age to to Dan. Words like "faggot" and "gay" were frequently used as insults by several of them but there was no homophobia behind it. Now I can understand why some people might take offence to their use of the words but none was ever meant.

I think Mr Lordbrownof made it abundantly clear that he DIDN'T think anyone was homophobic. In the same way, I think he also DIDN'T think anyone he saw was an alcoholic.

I read into it......boorish, immature and offensive and perhaps with a chip towards authority and the general public. At THAT time, anyway..........hopefully all in the past.

-- Edited by korriban on Sunday 9th of February 2014 09:40:51 PM

korriban · Challenger level

On a more positive note, I've just spotted that Evo, Wardy and Mr Cox are all on the alternates/ qualifier list for Indian Wells. I'm sure Seagull will update the board in the entries section when other details of w/c 3rd March are released.

RJA · Hall of fame

korriban wrote:
On a more positive note, I've just spotted that Evo, Wardy and Mr Cox are all on the alternates/ qualifier list for Indian Wells. I'm sure Seagull will update the board in the entries section when other details of w/c 3rd March are released.

If I may correct you here, you did not spot such a thing. The only list out for Indian Wells at the moment is the main draw list including alternatives which automatically includes all players in the top 250. The qualifying list is completely separate and is optional for all players. The deadline for entry is today (Monday 10th Feb) and it should be published sometime on Tuesday or early Wednesday. Evo will easily make the original cut, Ward won't make the original cut but may well get in after withdrawals, Cox is highly unlikely to get in.

korriban · Challenger level

RJA wrote:
korriban wrote:
On a more positive note, I've just spotted that Evo, Wardy and Mr Cox are all on the alternates/ qualifier list for Indian Wells. I'm sure Seagull will update the board in the entries section when other details of w/c 3rd March are released.
If I may correct you here, you did not spot such a thing. The only list out for Indian Wells at the moment is the main draw list including alternatives which automatically includes all players in the top 250. The qualifying list is completely separate and is optional for all players. The deadline for entry is today (Monday 10th Feb) and it should be published sometime on Tuesday or early Wednesday. Evo will easily make the original cut, Ward won't make the original cut but may well get in after withdrawals, Cox is highly unlikely to get in.

Happy to be corrected. Thanks for clearing it up.

steven · Tennis legend

Evo jumps 24 places to 123, much as expected. I think that puts him 7th on the list of British ATP singles career highs in the 21st century, with the following having made CHs in the top 150 since 2000.

2 Andy Murray
4 Tim Henman
24 Greg Rusedski (13 if you count 2000 as being in the 21st century; overall career high 4)
94 Martin Lee
108 Alex Bogdanovic
121 Jamie Delgado
123 Dan Evans
137 James Ward
137 Arvind Parmar (but only if you count 2000 as being in the 21st century, otherwise not in the top 150)

stevemcqueen · Futures qualifying

Do we know the official reason for Dan's withdrawal from Quimper? If he is in good enough shape to take TH to 3 close sets, I don't think he can be nursing an injury. His efforts in Croatia were fantastic, but Saturday to Tues/Weds should give him plenty of recovery time.

I have an idea that he finds top level tennis psychologically draining. He seemed burnt out after his efforts in the run up to the US Open and the US Open itself. His performance in the series of three Californian Challengers after the USO was disappointing, I'm sure Dan would admit as much. I watched the whole of his match against Jarmere Jenkins (WR 540) at Tiburon, and he just seemed despondent. After beating the world no. 12 and the world no 52 in a GS, overcoming a player ranked outside the top 500 should be straight forward.

Dan played only 19 tournaments last year, this is very few for a player who has not had any significant injury. Also, 72% of his current points total comes from just 4 tournaments. There are nine tournaments where he earned 12 points or less. His 3rd & 4th best points haul is 60 at Vancouver and Aptos. His fifth best is just 20. Some modest but consistent perfomance at Challengers of the next 4 months would be easily enough for him to break into the top 100. Just two Challenger finals and a semi would take care it.

I hope that his recent success helps him take further big events in his stride. These musings are just observtions and not criticisms. I'm a big fan of Dan;s!

-- Edited by stevemcqueen on Monday 10th of February 2014 01:39:27 PM