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Post Info TOPIC: Equal pay for women


Grand Slam Champion

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Equal pay for women


Interesting article in an Australian newspaper today:


Women net top money from a little tennis


WELL, thank you Martina Hingis for coming back and showing us everything there is to know about women's tennis.


First, by not picking up a racquet for almost three years and then cruising straight into a Grand Slam quarter-final, and second, by losing that quarter-final quickly so we could all get back to talking about the men's draw.

OK, OK, put down those spray-cans of mace – I am being facetious.

I am a great admirer of Hingis and everything she achieved before injury and the arrival of the Williams sisters forced her into premature retirement.


But in all honesty, does her recent success in Melbourne say more about her or about the standard of the players she faced along the way?

And more to the point, given the performance of the women throughout the tournament, how can they, in all conscience, accept equal prizemoney with the men?

I have long felt there are only 10 players in the women's ranks who can give each other a decent match.

Now I must admit I was wrong. There are only eight.

With the Williams sisters now obviously too rich and too bored to get it together for a tournament out of their time zone, and Alicia Molik struggling to walk a straight line, the door was wide open.

All Martina had to do was scamper through – as long as she was prepared to raise a slight sweat doing it. Note: the emphasis there is on "slight".

Admittedly, in losing her quarter-final to Kim Clijsters on Wednesday, Hingis was forced to venture where few female tennis players have been before – a third set – but even then the match lasted just 102 minutes.

Given that the men's match on the same day between Nicolas Kiefer and Sebastien Grosjean went for five sets and the best part of five gruelling hours, Martina and Kim got off lightly.

Not as lightly as fellow quarter-finalists Amelia Mauresmo and Patty Schnyder, mind you. The arm-wrestle between the No. 3 and No. 7 seeds was all over in 52 minutes.

To put that in perspective, Kiefer and Grosjean played three sets which individually went longer than the entire Schnyder-Mauresmo match.

At 96 minutes, the men's final set was 44 minutes longer than the women's match. The girls' longest set took all of 28 minutes.

And when both matches were over, losers Grosjean and Schnyder headed to the airport with exactly the same amount for their troubles – $152,500.

The women, or more specifically their agents, have long argued that they deserve equal pay based on the undeniable fact that . . . well, they just deserve it, that's all.

So what if women only play best-of-three sets while men play best of five? So what, too, that the chasm between the haves and have-nots of women's tennis is so great that the majority of matches rarely go longer than 6-1, 6-1.

The fact is that in some cases, like that of Maria Sharapova, the women are beautiful and look great in short skirts.

Young girls want to look like them and young men want to look at them.

Tennis ability is an advantage but certainly not compulsory. Just look at Anna Kournikova. And look and look and look.

Sharapova, who looks like Kournikova but plays like Navratilova, was recently named one of the most influential women aged under 25 on the planet, along with such potential world leaders as Lindsay Lohan.

So many other stunning looking young girls with similar sounding names are emerging on the pro tennis circuit that it seems they are being manufactured in a disused nuclear power plant in Latvia, but TV and marketing executives aren't concerned where they are coming from, just that they keep on coming.

Their matches attract TV viewers, viewers attract advertisers, and advertisers attract networks who pay a lot of money for telecast rights.

And that gives the women power to ask for all the money they want.

And who is going to tell them they can't have it? Certainly not Sebastien Grosjean. He just cops it sweet and accepts his cheque.

Given that Grosjean was on court for just over 13 hours during the tournament, that cheque represented a pay rate of $11,730 an hour.

His "opposite number" in the female draw, Schnyder, was punching the time clock at the hourly rate of $27,727.

And what of Hingis, who returned from the wilderness just to see how she might fare against the new breed of tennis stars who had climbed up the ranks while she was away?

Well, in making it into the fifth round, she played matches which lasted 56, 52, 66, 92 and 102 minutes.

She played a total of 11 sets and was taken past 6-2 on just four occasions.

Like Grosjean and Schnyder, her share of the singles prize pool was $152,500, earned at a rate of $23,461 an hour.

Nice work if you can get it.



 



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Club Coach

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That reminds me of what Richard Krajicek once said. What was it? 'the girls are a bunch of lazy fat lesbians', or words to that effect. The game has moved on a little since then i think with more chicks going to gyms (and Jims) but it is all about supply and demand i think. there was a stage a while back when women's tennis was getting interesting (lasted a week maybe) but the men's game is simply more entertaining and the field (discounting the swiss boy perhaps) more able to beat each other in a given tournament. I'm all for equality, of course, when it is deserved.

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Very true, especially as the men mostly have to play far more sets than the women. I`m all for equal opportunities... as long as men and women are doing the same thing. Obviously they are playing the same sport but the route through to the final for Baghdatis (and Federer when he presumably gets there) has been far tougher in terms of sets and match time than Henin-Hardenne and Mauresmo in the women`s draw.

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Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

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I have to agree here. Equal pay for equal work is fair. So in tournaments where the men play best of 5, the ladies should either play best of 5 or take less pay.

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I agree with Madeline and Sally. The competition is much higher in the men's event and matches are much longer. The standard is also mostly higher in the men's event. I'm all for equal pay for equal work.

I wonder what the male tennis players themselves feel about this ?

P.S I was waiting until some of the female members had posted on this topic before posting my view, just to make sure I didn't get bashed by the female members for being anti-equal pay in Grand Slams Several months ago I jumped in too soon on a similar topic to this on another tennis site and the female site admin banned me because she didn't agree. I've learnt my lesson from that - I don't want to experience the force of Mad's zimmer frame !!!

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I may well be wrong but I don`t recall any male players making any comment on it since equal pay was introduced at the Aussie, French and US Open.  I suspect they probably keep their opinions to themselves for the same reason - they don`t want to be labelled sexist or unsporting etc, but I`d love to know their thoughts too.



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i agree with you all, equal pay for equal work seems fair to me, otherwise it isn't equal pay, it's more for women! Also, mens tennis is so much more unpredictable, as the article says there is about 8 women who can compete with each other, i mean seeds 2,3,4and7 were in the semi finals in the womens whereas seeds 1,4 and 21 are in the mens, that has to tell you something.


i think it would be really interesting to see what the male tennis players think on the issue, perhaps the media should ask Andy Murray, i'm sure he'd give his honest opinion



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Grand Slam Champion

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I`ve done a bit of digging and here are some comments from male players. They are from quite a while ago (1999 I think) when the equal pay was a possibility rather than reality but I thought I`d share them anyway as they are all I can find.


John McEnroe: "If I were advising the guys, I'd tell them to take the equal prize money - while they still have a chance.... In the meantime, the women are carrying the promotional load and bringing fans through the turnstiles. They should be paid accordingly."


Tim Henman: "I think that we’re playing best of five sets and they’re playing best of three. I think they should worry about getting their own (WTA) tournaments at a bigger and better level (prize money) and then worry about the Grand Slams. think if they’re still saying they want more in the Grand Slams that’s probably getting a bit greedy."


Interestingly, Anna Kournikova said that there shouldn`t be equal prize money as long as they play a different number of sets - she was pretty much the only female to say so!



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David wrote:
: - I don't want to experience the force of Mad's zimmer frame !!!


When I first made that joke about the zimmer frame, I didn't expect it to run longer than "The Mousetrap"!

Ok, Drew and David, you have had your fun now - I HAVEN'T EVEN GOT ONE, OK?

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Tennis legend

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From Ben Rothenberg:

"Overall, the grass season is much, much greener for the men than the women.

Wimbledon offers symbolic equal prize money, yes, but elsewhere the overall pay gap is massive this time on the grass."

(Men's total doesn't include ATP Newport, which hasn't yet announced its 2018 $).

pbs.twimg.com/media/DgYslhIXcAE_VCW.jpg

pbs.twimg.com/media/DgYslhIXcAE_VCW.jpg

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Tennis legend

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Interesting.

Though it's up to the WTA tour then to make their events more attractive propositions and/or sell them better to potential sponsors. Market forces ...

I was wondering about the big difference in the 's-Hertogenbosch joint ATP 250 / WTA International event but £187.5K does seem to be the going rate for their WTA Internationals.



-- Edited by indiana on Saturday 23rd of June 2018 10:36:58 PM

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You can see it in the ticket prices and in the venues - comparing Queens and Birmingham, for instance - yes, empty seats for both but particularly so for Birmingham, the top tier was extremely sparse. My ticket was under £40 for Brum (centre court) and double that for Queens (centre court). Court 1 in Brum was not a show court, Queens made the effort for it to be a (tiny) show court. The facilities in Queens were bigger and better than the ones in Brum.

For WTA tournaments I am not sure the market is there for them to put the prices up.

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The ATP are miles ahead of the WTA in terms of sales and marketing.

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flamingowings wrote:

You can see it in the ticket prices and in the venues - comparing Queens and Birmingham, for instance - yes, empty seats for both but particularly so for Birmingham, the top tier was extremely sparse. My ticket was under £40 for Brum (centre court) and double that for Queens (centre court). Court 1 in Brum was not a show court, Queens made the effort for it to be a (tiny) show court. The facilities in Queens were bigger and better than the ones in Brum.

For WTA tournaments I am not sure the market is there for them to put the prices up.


 That's the thing isn't it. It's all well and good to say equal pay, but if you're not generating the income you can't pay it out. I follow the women's circuit, and especially our up and coming batch with more fervor than I do the men's tour, but, give me the choice of watching a close best of five and all it's ups and downs and a close best of three, and the best of five wins every time.

Also, much as I hate to admit it, most of Jo public love the brute force that is more akin to the men's game than the women's, and don't understand enough of the naunces of tennis to appreciate the cat and mouse of the women's game. £ in = £ out.



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Edit



-- Edited by christ on Thursday 28th of June 2018 08:56:30 AM

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