Week 44 - Challenger ($50,000) - Seoul, Korea Rep. (Hard)

Doonan · Intermediate Club Player

RE: Week 44 - Challenger ($50,000) - Seoul, Korea Rep. (Hard)

TMH · Futures qualifying

What's happened to Dan and James since the USO?

From beating Nishikori and Tomic to getting bagelled by a guy ranked outside the top 250 (who, albeit, did beat Gasquet last year). It's a disappointing and slightly worrying slide.

indiana · Tennis legend

Actually I thought Dan did OK in his US Challengers, following the US Open.

Other than a loss in an absolute gale to a much lower ranked but probably also very underranked player, he competed well with good challenger players.

Anyone that thought the US Open indicated that Dan would suddenly charge through challengers probably needs a reality check.

Today doesn't seem too good, but patience please..

As for James, he is worryingly inconsistent, but that's hardly new.

Salmon · Tennis legend

He should have done much better in the US. I can see why he struggled in the wind, but that's his fault, in all honesty, because it's the same for the both the guys.

Even Dan's worst critic would probably agree that it's all in his head. If someone needs to see a shrink, it's Evo, and not James. You don't fluke that USO run, and suddenly he's playing like someone ranked 300. bleh

Shhh · Challenger level

I think you're being hard Salmon. All players have peaks and troughs, Dan's highs from US Open were very high, a slight comedown afterwards is not unusual. He's competing at challenger level and winning matches, he can do better still we know but, all things considered I think he's doing fine......even more so when you consider where he's been the last few years.

korriban · Challenger level

On small margins, and all that.

We have no idea what behind the scenes work Dan has been doing, but every indication is that he has been working hard. There has been quite a lot of (probably deserved) attention coming his way after the 2 US Challenger Finals, both with MPs, and then his outstanding run at the USO - a new Management contract, more press, Question of Sport - stuff like that.

It's not impossible that the combination of the first trappings of success plus being told he is a very talented player plus going into matches with an expectation of winning, rather than a "nothing to lose" scenario has affected his mental approach just a tiny bit......which makes a big difference in matches that turn on 1 or 2 points.

In today's match he lost a very close second set via a single break and then he let everything run away. Against Mr Jenkins he refused to compromise in gale force conditions and get the win playing ugly/smart - by going for his shots until he beat himself. He did so well at the USO playing with a very aggressive approach and tons of variety - something that can go awry when you aren't at your best (even Mr Federer or Mr Murray would agree). It may be that he is trying to do the same now when his level has dropped a notch and it's simply not working - but he really ought to have a safer Plan B to get him through patches like this, when playing against lesser players......it ought to be enough.

I don't agree with Indy on this one - I suspect Dan himself will have been disappointed with his post USO US Challenger tour - but I thought his lack of success a few weeks back would have been helpful in keeping him grounded and providing a good reality check - to spur him on in training and then to motivate him for this final Asian tour. I still think he can have a good 4 tournaments overall.......especially if he remembers to go to bed not too late before his match the next day (grr).

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Shhh wrote:
I think you're being hard Salmon. All players have peaks and troughs, Dan's highs from US Open were very high, a slight comedown afterwards is not unusual. He's competing at challenger level and winning matches, he can do better still we know but, all things considered I think he's doing fine......even more so when you consider where he's been the last few years.

I agree. I think his US Challenger showing was mildly disappointing but OK-ish. More importantly than the actual results, he seemed to buckle down to the job in hand, not throw a wobbler or come back home or any number of other things.

Only 6 months ago Dan didn't have a single point on his results sheet that came from outside the UK. He barely had been outside the UK. He then had the honeymoon summer period of suddenly going up a whole gear and now it's the grind of regular tour tennis - it's not an easy life and he's got practically no experience of it. I think he's doing pretty well, considering.

steven · Tennis legend

It's worth remembering that Dan took a while to get going during the US swing over the summer too - he seems to suffer quite badly from jetlag (I don't know whether it's more than normal for a tennis player or if he just mentions it more and/or hasn't become adept enough at dealing with it yet - perhaps not a surprise if he hasn't played outside the UK that much before) so I wouldn't be surprised to see him get better on this tour as it goes along and as he gets more attuned to the conditions.

Also, he was playing a decent opponent (top 150 just a few months ago) who was much closer to home. A bad day at the office, definitely (judging by comments from people who saw some of the match) but nothing at all to suggest a return to the bad old days.

Salmon · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:

Only 6 months ago Dan didn't have a single point on his results sheet that came from outside the UK. He barely had been outside the UK. He then had the honeymoon summer period of suddenly going up a whole gear and now it's the grind of regular tour tennis - it's not an easy life and he's got practically no experience of it. I think he's doing pretty well, considering.

In the last two months, he has had two wins on the tour, and one was against an unranked player. Sorry, but if that's "pretty well" for guy with such a high ceiling as a player...

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Salmon wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

Only 6 months ago Dan didn't have a single point on his results sheet that came from outside the UK. He barely had been outside the UK. He then had the honeymoon summer period of suddenly going up a whole gear and now it's the grind of regular tour tennis - it's not an easy life and he's got practically no experience of it. I think he's doing pretty well, considering.

In the last two months, he has had two wins on the tour, and one was against an unranked player. Sorry, but if that's "pretty well" for guy with such a high ceiling as a player...

I know what you mean but, as I said, I was talking about more than just the results (which I agree are pretty underwhelming).

I mean that he's doing 'pretty well' in adjusting to the life of a pro tennis player, which is not easy.

If he can do that, the results will follow but there was (and maybe still is) quite a high risk with Dan that he wouldn't be able to hack it, and luckily it seems that he can . . .

indiana · Tennis legend

Well, I still agree with me LOL

Look, I was right up there in the past being critical of Dan for his attitude at times and particularly his commitment. There was so much that indicated he had real talent, which he was far from fulfilling. Yes, the US Open in particular and also some Davis Cup performances indicated there is much more in the well yet. But did I have any real expectation that he was from now on going to be say a consistent top 100 player, let alone top 50 / 60, well no. I just hoped he'd get his head down and work and learn in week to week challengers with hopefully some successes. Yes, he could no doubt have shown more nous in the gale, but that's all part of the learning experience. Maybe even at times there might still be some commitment issues, but it is difficult to totally change in a short time. Most of the signs I see are good now, though today was indeed disappointing, and I expect he will steadily ( maybe too steadily for some ) get better with occasional further real highs. The general direction compared to a year ago is soo much better. Consistent top 100 is maybe a year or two away yet. If it doesn't then happen, I will indeed be disappointed, because he does have the talent.

Yes, Dan would no doubt have wished to do better following the US Open, and I would have liked to see him do better, but I stick to my opinion that he did OK in the US.

And it is actually a good point that he will have likely been affected a bit by all the attention. But still so much better than a year or so ago.

I remain thinking that Dan has a big upside yet in his ranking, but it seems I have less immediate expectation than many ( and hence I guess less concern ). I noticed that I was one of the few who didn't vote that he will be top 100 next year in the quite recent poll we had. I think he might yet be, but on balance then and now I felt more likely not in 2014.

Salmon · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Salmon wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

Only 6 months ago Dan didn't have a single point on his results sheet that came from outside the UK. He barely had been outside the UK. He then had the honeymoon summer period of suddenly going up a whole gear and now it's the grind of regular tour tennis - it's not an easy life and he's got practically no experience of it. I think he's doing pretty well, considering.

In the last two months, he has had two wins on the tour, and one was against an unranked player. Sorry, but if that's "pretty well" for guy with such a high ceiling as a player...

I know what you mean but, as I said, I was talking about more than just the results (which I agree are pretty underwhelming).
I mean that he's doing 'pretty well' in adjusting to the life of a pro tennis player, which is not easy.
If he can do that, the results will follow but there was (and maybe still is) quite a high risk with Dan that he wouldn't be able to hack it, and luckily it seems that he can . . .

Fair enough, I didn't see your point earlier. Yes, Dan has been training hard and keeping his head down, which is fantastic.

I just hope that when he next hits form in a big event, he'll back his talent and fight it out with the big boys.

Salmon · Tennis legend

http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2013/6881/qs.pdf

Yeongwol qualies draw.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

So Ash goes all the way to Korea and ends up playing Marcus Daniell !