The search is on for future GB top 100 players that would benefit from free corporate management & funding

paulisi · Tennis legend

RE: Marcus wins 4 back to back futures doubles titles

Shhh · Challenger level

I am all for expressing an opinion on here, even more so a different opinion and reading a debate is far better than reading a list of "cheerleading". To simply rubbish someone or something from a keyboard is not debate or expressing a different opinion though. In this thread, a couple of the above comments appeared to be doing that....I say "appeared" as lots gets lost and taken the wrong way on message boards....it happens to me all the time!

From my mind I think any young man/woman, spending a short slice of their life being a pro tennis player is fantastic in itself. Sadly some do not appreciate how lucky they are doing just that and don't maximise their brief time in the sport. Too often they look at what they haven't got, or look at what others have got where I think they should just have their heads down and max out this opportunity........they'll be a long time retired.

Marcus is where he is. We all agree he has talent and perhaps its fair to say he hasn't always maxed out that talent to date. However he has now risen greatly up the singles rankings and said, along with Lewis, "Lets get into doubles at Wimbledon next year". To my mind thats a decent, realistic, worthwhile goal for someone in his position to hold. I'll enjoy the watching the journey if they make it happen (certainly I wish I could look back at having done that). Whether they make it or not, once Wimbledon is over he can take stock of where he is and set a new goal.......hopefully one that stretches him further.

If a player is just going to play futures events one after the hoping to do their best then they tend to stay doing just that. "Success is the journey, not the destination" is a toe curling cliche but does hold true. If Marcus is trying to get to a specific point then it'll be fun following.

Blimey that turned into a sermon.......must be a Sunday thing...........I'll go back to mainly reading wink

paulisi · Tennis legend

No issue Shhh with your comments whatsoever and I tend to agree.

The big issue seems to be that the future tours are not a financially viable way to get started and if you are reasonably talented, then you will probably need support from your federation or an outside investor to get through and over this level.

Marcus obviously has the talent, but there is clearly a frustration there about the lack of support from the LTA. It will not just be Marcus that this will affect as I remember one of the girls tweeting that she hadn't had a coach travel with her for over 6 months.

I'm glad that Marcus has got external interests to help him develop his career and i'm sure everyone wants him to go and do well. The big question is why aren't the LTA supporting more of the talented players rather than the chosen few?

Lets hope that A1's investment pays off and Marcus has a successful career and we look forward to following it with interest.

Hopefully with A1 on this board now we may get a little more insight into Marcus(assuming we haven't scared him off)

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I'm not a great LTA fan but one should remember that the LTA did indeed used to support Marcus.

It was Marcus who was sent home from the Aussie Junior open 'in disgrace' (for failing to turn up to practice, not having his kit etc. etc.) i.e. nothing awful, just not taking things seriously. As someone said on another thread, all rather Dan Evans like really.

Now that was quite a few years ago and, like Dan Evans, no one should be bashed over the head for evermore because of a few antics when they were a kid. But it is well possible that the LTA got fed enough and just pulled the plug.

You'd hope (with their Matrix whatsit) that the LTA reassess their players each year. Maybe Marcus will be reconsidered . . . or maybe he doesn't need to be or even want to be reconsidered now.

Re the doubles, like Shhh, I think that his doubles goal is fine and laudable. However, as I said, it was a double interview and so he was only really being asked about doubles.. It is well possible that he has equally specific singles goals. Frankly, I imagine (and hope) he does.

Traveling as a pair, with a friend, playing doubles, seems to me a great idea for a successful singles tour. Three weeks in Kuwait, if you hardly know anyone, could be hard.

I'd just like to say thanks to A1; it's great to see a corporate sponsor really get involved. Maybe others will notice and think about doing the same ?

RJA · Hall of fame

spud wrote:
RJA wrote:
While I don't wish to belittle anyone's achievements doubles at futures level is pretty much a joke. Very few players take it remotely seriously.
Have you won one?

Taking that comment at face value we might as well close the forum. If the requirement to offer an opinion is that we must have won an event at a level of tennis to pass comment on it then I am guessing we all fall short. Unless of course we have one or two anonymous ex / current pros on here.

Having watched quite a few doubles matches at futures level it is clear that most of the players consider it a laugh. At almost every British futures you get byes in the first round, walkovers when players withdraw because they have lost in the singles and don't wish to stick around, scratch pairings who are unfamiliar with each others game, players playing with a mate and treating the match like a practice session. It is hardly surprising that the handful of teams that play together regularly and take the doubles seriously tend to win most of the events. As I said, I don't wish to belittle their achievements, I just want to put them in context.

A1 tennis academy · Satellite level

I am not of the belief that doubles is unimportant in fact at the highest level of domestic mens team competition eg Aegon an increasing number of GB ATP ranked players participate and I am keen encourage our best players in stay in GB team competition rather than German or french club competition eg it's written into MW sponsorship contract that he supports Aegon £ national indoors team events rather than french league .

There is 1 point for 4 singles and 2 doubles - 6 in total

The only other major National men's competition is the national indoors founded by the infatigible Mike Dixon it is 100% doubles and GB no2 Dan Evans and an increasing number of GB top 25 eg Ed corrie , MW , George Coupland , toby martin regularly participate . This is an opportunity to help develop and encourage GB doubles pairs that could be critical to GB staying in the top world group of Davies cup now and in the future .

At the international level the eg Davies cup there is a point for 4 singles & 1 doubles . The doubles if the singles are 2-2 is this critical to winning an important tie and GB would be very difficult to defeat in the doubles rubber on grass

I am therefore keen as a team builder to help develop all GB doubles pairs that could be critical to team success at all levels including the highest - particularly now that GB as rejoined the highly competitive Davies cup world group .

Our ethos at A1 in business and sport has a huge emphasis on team work which is critical to success in doubles -

Individuals are not perfect but carefully selected teams can get close to perfection

freerider · Futures level

A1 tennis academy wrote:
I am not of the belief that doubles is unimportant in fact at the highest level of domestic mens team competition eg Aegon an increasing number of GB ATP ranked players participate and I am keen encourage our best players in stay in GB team competition rather than German or french club competition eg it's written into MW sponsorship contract that he supports Aegon £ national indoors team events rather than french league .
There is 1 point for 4 singles and 2 doubles - 6 in total
The only other major National men's competition is the national indoors founded by the infatigible Mike Dixon it is 100% doubles and GB no2 Dan Evans and an increasing number of GB top 25 eg Ed corrie , MW , George Coupland , toby martin regularly participate . This is an opportunity to help develop and encourage GB doubles pairs that could be critical to GB staying in the top world group of Davies cup now and in the future .
At the international level the eg Davies cup there is a point for 4 singles & 1 doubles . The doubles if the singles are 2-2 is this critical to winning an important tie and GB would be very difficult to defeat in the doubles rubber on grass
I am therefore keen as a team builder to help develop all GB doubles pairs that could be critical to team success at all levels including the highest - particularly now that GB as rejoined the highly competitive Davies cup world group .
Our ethos at A1 in business and sport has a huge emphasis on team work which is critical to success in doubles -
Individuals are not perfect but carefully selected teams can get close to perfection

I think you missed RJAs point here about it being the standard of competition in futures doubles opposed to the importance of a good doubles pairing.

also it's davis cup not davies cup.

A1 tennis academy · Satellite level

I probably have visited as many futures events in GB this year as anybody apart from the players . The comment that doubles futures are not taken seriously is sometimes correct but I can assure you that in many cases eg Sean Thornley , david rice , ed corrie , josh ward hibbert , Marcus willis /lewis burton , toby martin /scott clayton , neal Skupski, rob carter/myles bugsby and many others it is not true

prior to entering Top 100 GB no1 colin Fleming , Jonny Marray & ken skupski took doubles futures very seriously .These 3 world class doubles players are an inspiration to myself in doing my bit to build young "all GB doubles pairs " like Marcus Willia & Lewis Burton that I can assure you are doing there best to win and indeed improve .

At A1 we will be keen to take full advantage of any complacency that our competitors allow us and will continue to prove the doubters wrong . In GB there has always been irrespective of success the doubters the ones who want to be little success and pull you down ! at A1 we will utilise it as rocket fuel as we proved the doubters wrong in business we will also continue to do it in tennis .

I have only been involved in tennis since 2000 but GB tennis is now having arguably the greatest results in the modern history of the Game and certainly this century so lets rejoice in the success and talk about the positives eg A record number of ATP ranked men's players about 72 , Olympic medals , Wimbledon champions singles 2013 & doubles 2012 and now Promotion to top group of world team tennis

Happy days !!! & thanks team Murray and yes also Roger Draper let's build on the legacy Rather than wasting it !

A1 tennis academy · Satellite level

My father always taught me that everybody deserves a 2nd chance - It appears that I was listening on that occasion .

I believe in giving young people chances and 2nd chances I certainly had my fair share I will tell you a little story when I was 19 ( august 79 ) I travelled alone very nervous to my interview to decide wether I would get a place studying pharmacy at Portsmouth during clearing . I had 4 A level science passes but my grades were slightly below the average entry level . One of the professors persuaded another member of the panel of 3 who had his doubts that I should be given a chance I only had a D pass in Physics but he argued it was from an inner city school where the average pupil only had 1 O level pass compared with my 11 . The old professor said Gary has done really well & struggled to get this far ( I had to teach myself A level physics after buying Nelkon ) I think that gary will soar & seize the opportunity .

I scraped in and was behind after the first chemistry test I came 92nd out of 105 students and was clearly behind the other students many of whom had grammar school and often private education

I worked extremely hard and at the end of the summer was runner up

For the chemistry prize . So yes I believe in second chances !

indiana · Tennis legend

Nice speech, A1.

This forum is full of tennis enthusiasts, particulatly enthusiastic about British tennis players. We generally really like to see success from Brits and highlight it.

But it is certainly fair to say that we are not uncritical cheerleaders. This is not a tribute board, but a forum to discuss British tennis. We have discussions about British tennis in general and individual players, trying to put success and failure into context.

I would say this has generally been a very encouraging year for British tennis and the team situation has undoubtably been aided by having good people in the captaincy positions.

However, men's tennis in GB has been very much about Andy Murray, indeed earlier this year he was the only British man in the world top 250, an extremely poor situation. It has been really good though to see Dan Evans' real emergence of late and James Ward has got himself back into the top 200. Kyle Edmund too promises much, although the next few junior years are not currently looking hugely encouraging.

Women's tennis is generally better for GB at the top level, and I have continued high hopes for Laura and Heather in particular, but arguably has a worrying lack of depth after say the top dozen.

Let's welcome successes, but always keep perspective and continue to look to try and improve.

I wish all the best for Marcus, and hope he can make the most of his undoubted real talent. It is great too to see yourselves taking such an interest and investing in British tennis.

A1 tennis academy · Satellite level

Particularly when you realise that Marcus has a much stronger record when compared with colin fleming , jon Marray , etc at the same age .

wink

indiana · Tennis legend

For clarification, my previous post was a reply to the one two up from it, i.e. not A1's following post.

RJA · Hall of fame

A1 tennis academy wrote:
I probably have visited as many futures events in GB this year as anybody apart from the players . The comment that doubles futures are not taken seriously is sometimes correct but I can assure you that in many cases eg Sean Thornley , david rice , ed corrie , josh ward hibbert , Marcus willis /lewis burton , toby martin /scott clayton , neal Skupski, rob carter/myles bugsby and many others it is not true
prior to entering Top 100 GB no1 colin Fleming , Jonny Marray & ken skupski took doubles futures very seriously .These 3 world class doubles players are an inspiration to myself in doing my bit to build young "all GB doubles pairs " like Marcus Willia & Lewis Burton that I can assure you are doing there best to win and indeed improve .

Yes some players take doubles seriously but lets just look at the list. The first two you mention, Rice and Thornley, have won numerous futures doubles titles yet barring the odd good week they consistently fail to make any impact at challenger level. Ed Corrie took doubles very seriously last year but this year his focus has been on singles and he hasn't won any doubles titles. JWH is a young player who is still taking both singles and doubles seriously. Neal Skupski is a doubles specialist. As for Martin, Clayton, Carter and Bugby, all decent players but hardly what you would call the best that the British futures scene has to offer.

To win a singles title you have to win 5 matches, of which at least 4, sometimes 5 will be reasonably competitive. You frequently see unranked players pushing seeded players very hard and even if they don't cause an upset they give their all and make it a proper match. To win a doubles title you need to win a maximum of 4 matches and often it is only 3 and frequently one or more of these will be against a scratch pairing. Any well established doubles team should expect, as a minimum, to make the at least the SFs of the vast majority of futures tournaments that they play.

I am not remotely anti-Doubles but when you compare what it takes to win a futures event in the singles to what it takes in the doubles the gulf is absolutely huge.

Salmon · Tennis legend

In any case, the board has been very interesting today with all these debates. We just need Vandenburg to post a few times and then my happiness would max out.

A1 tennis academy · Satellite level

Agreed but if you win a futures singles with LTA bonus get around £1600 for doubles only £200
I think a £100 or £200 bonus would help
Struggling singles & doubles players