Week 37 - Great Britain F19 ($10,000) - Roehampton (Hard)

Spectator · All-time great

RE: Week 37 - Great Britain F19 ($10,000) - Roehampton (Hard)

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Thanks Josh. Really interesting. And exactly the impression he gives.

NB glad to see Ed scoring well. (Korriban, your concerns in an earlier thread about his first set with Marcus Gan, which you were then 'reassured' about given the second set score, were - in fact - spot on. Standing three metres behind the baseline, playing percentage tennis - I felt like shouting at him 'this isn't a clay court, Ed - have you not noticed ???' Marcus played very well (far better than when I saw him last week at Paddington) but, really, Ed should have been crushing him).

Anyway, no bad wishes for Scott but glad to see that Ed has taken the first set 6-1

PS just seen your post Spectator - others may know better than me but I saw a bit of his doubles yesterday with Ed - they won easily. And it was pure joy. Josh just has great natural ball skills - the big serve and powerful ground shots are not key points, in my view, and he volleys very well (but doesn't really use it in singles) but so do others. However, in doubles, he's got super reflexes, conjures a shot out of nothing, sees the space, it's the opposite of the singles, drilled stlye of play of many of the others. I think Ed was having fun too.

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Wednesday 11th of September 2013 09:45:03 AM

Spectator · All-time great

I remembered that JWH had done basketball, but didn't realise that he'd been playing that seriously that recently. Fascinating. I then also did some googling and looked at his statistics, comparing them to other people mentioned in articles. U16 Player of the Year for England? Seriously impressive statistics? Maybe this is one of those occasions where GB has the advantage over the US. Can't imagine he'd still be playing tennis there!

PS: Thanks, CD, for the info on his doubles skills, too.

-- Edited by Spectator on Wednesday 11th of September 2013 11:58:05 AM

john · Top national player

Josh Paris, the 17 year old, breaks the American 6th seed in the second set for *4-2!

-- Edited by john on Wednesday 11th of September 2013 11:57:39 AM

-- Edited by john on Wednesday 11th of September 2013 11:58:22 AM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

john wrote:
Quite an old article on Josh Paris:

www.thejc.com/sport/sport-news/52406/i-can-go-all-way-says-paris

"During the week, Paris trains at the National Tennis Centre in Roehampton and he is a member of David Lloyd Finchley. He maintains a strict training regime with a fitness trainer, and does yoga on a weekly basis.
"Tennis is all about coordination," he said. "There are things I have to focus on by myself, including stretching and fitness. I also do yoga. I feel the more I do now, the better I'll feel in the next few years."

I thought that Josh was now only training at the David LLoyd centre in Finchley, coached by Damion Jackson. But might be wrong.

There's been quite a lot of press about him this year because he captained the GB team in the Maccabi (or Maccabiah) games. Becky Smaller and him both won medals.

I think I remember reading somewhere that he was going to the US to do the college route. But, again, I might be wrong. Or things might have changed.

PS Korri, should add that RJA highlighted Paris (and his lovely backhand) a week or two ago - I was just jumping on the bandwagon !

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Wednesday 11th of September 2013 12:35:46 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

The tall American wins the third set 6-2. Well done to Josh P. though.

Looks like a tight second set between Dan and Luke . ..

NB 'Old' Josh, as John says, will now play 'middle Josh' (as opposed to 'young' Josh) - could be interesting !

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Wednesday 11th of September 2013 12:48:51 PM

korriban · Challenger level

Regarding Liam, we have heard now in quite a few posts that he is playing with very little power and penetration. The few rallies that were on video from Sheffield almost looked like slow motion to me. His serve was described as being like a second serve all the time. Perhaps this is a deliberate policy to ensure greater consistency, or perhaps its a weakness in his game that he'll address over time. But a tourament win means he must be doing something right.

on Marcus, photos from early season showed him much slimmer. I presume he worked harder over thw winter, perhaps as part of the commitments from his sponsorship deal. And it worked very well early in the season. Results have got less impressive as the season has gone on, as I presume his willpower crumbled. The difference with Dan is that he is naturally very fit, light, and fast around the court. The core fitness is there. I fear Marcus would probably find it hard to stick to his off court regimes when on tour in far flung places, so this may never change.What a waste.

freerider · Futures level

korriban wrote:
But a tourament win means he must be doing something right.

I'm not criticizing Liam because he still had to string together the 5 wins and make the most of his draws, but I do feel as though everybody is getting carried away by Liam's win saying that he is finally reaching his potential etc etc, so I had a second look at the drawsheet from Sheffield and it really wasn't the toughest route to his first futures title:

R1 - the unranked Clay Crawford

R2 - the apparently out of shape Marcus Willis

QF - Miles Orton wr1232

SF - the potentially injury limited Dan Cox

F - Rob Carter wr1188.

korriban · Challenger level

Liam won his Futures title, fair & square. You can only beat those put in front of you. Between Marcus and Dan, the pair have won 6 Futures titles this year to date, all with (or despite) their fitness and injury concerns, and were ranked far higher than Liam. What more does he have to do? I have real concerns over Liam's weight of shot, particularly on serve, and whether he is too lightweight to make an impact on tour, but he seems to have rediscovered his consistency and confidence, and last week was by no means a "lucky draw".

I found CD's commentary fascinating, as always. As such I remain increasingly confused by James Marsalek's feedback on his own performance (which was at odds with CDs view), his form generally and what attributes made him stand out so much as to make the Team Aegon cut over 2-3 years. I fear that graft and grind (important though they are) may be attributes rewarded more generously within the LTA than aggression, weapons, killer patterns of play and power. It certainly looks that way. I'm also rooting for Joshua Paris now - sounds like he has something special to build on, and isn't just an identikit player. Please God we find some good juniors who become great pros. Looking forward to today's match-ups.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Re JWH, and without looking it all up, does anyone know what his junior career/progression was ?

I was under impressed by Liam yesterday but am the first to say that I may well be wrong (just one day, one and half sets, windy, a bit flat from having just won, whatever . . .). And it was certainly a good game. However, you see what you see . . .

But I'm absolutely sure about Josh's potential (again, so what but hey. . .).

My question re his junior career (indeed when did he take up tennis ? did he do another sport first ? when did he stop growing ?) is that he hasn't got it all together yet. Just in terms of effective point construction, point after point. Lack of experience ? 'Boyish joy' in simply trying a shot/something for fun ? Not quite realising what had to be done and when ?
When you see tennis broken down on those assessment sheets into technique, athletic prowess, natural ball skills and mental skills, for me Josh ticks the first three as 10/10. But not the fourth. It's not mental weakness as in giving up and throwing in the towel, and I don;t know about his work ethic but I;m guessing it's fine (he looks in good shape), but his mental appreciation of his game, his opponents' game, not going AWOL sometimes, etc. etc. are not great.

I think it'll take some time to get it all in place. He's only 19.

NB I ask about when he stopped growing re his serve. He's a tall bloke, and strong (and will be quite a physically scary sight when he's into his twenties) but some tall guys need longer to get their serves consistent and sorted out, especially if they did most of their growing later in their teens, rather than early teens. Don't know, just wondering . ..

freerider · Futures level

korriban wrote:
Liam won his Futures title, fair & square. You can only beat those put in front of you. Between Marcus and Dan, the pair have won 6 Futures titles this year to date, all with (or despite) their fitness and injury concerns, and were ranked far higher than Liam. What more does he have to do? I have real concerns over Liam's weight of shot, particularly on serve, and whether he is too lightweight to make an impact on tour, but he seems to have rediscovered his consistency and confidence, and last week was by no means a "lucky draw"

I did not say it was a luck draw and I did credit that Liam still did well to capitalise on a relatively weak tournament ( he played someone ranked outside the top 1000 in the final for goodness sake). In fairness beating Willis, on paper, was a very good result - but Cox was potentially suffering from a wrist injury.

Josh · Challenger level

Coup Droit wrote:
Re JWH, and without looking it all up, does anyone know what his junior career/progression was ?

I was under impressed by Liam yesterday but am the first to say that I may well be wrong (just one day, one and half sets, windy, a bit flat from having just won, whatever . . .). And it was certainly a good game. However, you see what you see . . .

But I'm absolutely sure about Josh's potential (again, so what but hey. . .).

My question re his junior career (indeed when did he take up tennis ? did he do another sport first ? when did he stop growing ?) is that he hasn't got it all together yet. Just in terms of effective point construction, point after point. Lack of experience ? 'Boyish joy' in simply trying a shot/something for fun ? Not quite realising what had to be done and when ?
When you see tennis broken down on those assessment sheets into technique, athletic prowess, natural ball skills and mental skills, for me Josh ticks the first three as 10/10. But not the fourth. It's not mental weakness as in giving up and throwing in the towel, and I don;t know about his work ethic but I;m guessing it's fine (he looks in good shape), but his mental appreciation of his game, his opponents' game, not going AWOL sometimes, etc. etc. are not great.

I think it'll take some time to get it all in place. He's only 19.

NB I ask about when he stopped growing re his serve. He's a tall bloke, and strong (and will be quite a physically scary sight when he's into his twenties) but some tall guys need longer to get their serves consistent and sorted out, especially if they did most of their growing later in their teens, rather than early teens. Don't know, just wondering . ..

Pretty sure JHW took basketball pretty far as well. Think he was picked for some GB/England youth squad once..

Google reveals he was park of the 2010 UK U16 team in the European Championships, playing significant minutes in every game. So it may be the case that he has only been taking tennis seriously for around 3 years or so,

Spectator · All-time great

What I find interesting was that in singles he wasn't unusually competitive as a junior (good but not a superstar), but in doubles from about the end of the year where his playing age was 17 onwards, he and a succession of good partners could beat pretty well anyone on a given day. (And did: Cagnina repeatedly, Thiem, Kern, Krueger, Kyrgios, Pavlasek, Redlicki, Garin, Quinzi ....) For those who have watched him regularly, any sense of what makes him so very good in doubles?

RJA · Hall of fame

korriban wrote:
Liam won his Futures title, fair & square. You can only beat those put in front of you. Between Marcus and Dan, the pair have won 6 Futures titles this year to date, all with (or despite) their fitness and injury concerns, and were ranked far higher than Liam. What more does he have to do? I have real concerns over Liam's weight of shot, particularly on serve, and whether he is too lightweight to make an impact on tour, but he seems to have rediscovered his consistency and confidence, and last week was by no means a "lucky draw".

There is no doubt that Liam is not serving as hard as a used to. I am pretty sure that this is partly because of his injury problems and partly to improve its accuracy which when he was hitting it harder tended to be extremely inconsistent. As for his forehand, at the start of the summer he was hitting it pretty hard so I am not sure what has happened. It might be that the amount of tennis that he has played over the summer has caught up with him, that his shoulder is sore and that he is playing within himself for that reason. We will have to see how things go over the rest of the year. With Liam's recently improving results I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt that he and his team know what they are doing.

paulisi · Tennis legend

Ed a set and a break up.

Lewis has surprisingly lost the first set

JWH a break up in first set

Marzi 5-5 with Toby