Week 35 - US Open (men's main draw - Dan) - hard

daisy · County player

RE: Week 35 - US Open (men's main draw - Dan) - hard

christian · Intermediate Club Player

Had to watch flicking through in a hurry this morning but as with the first set I watched last night, Evo never really looked out of his depth, apart from a few loose games. His shot variety, fight and determination are all things that should see him make the top 100, if he plays close to his level of this week. If not for the AO then certainly for later. He should be proud of himself it was such a good feeling watching a Saturday night foreign slam on Sky with big build-up and lots of talk about a Brit, and for it not to be Andy. And I mean no disrespect to Andy at all in that, I'm sure he's as pleased as we all are.

thegingerlightbulb · Intermediate Club Player

RJA wrote:
Dan has 331 points YTD and would need around 220 more to make the top 100. That won't be easy but it is doable and if that his aim then he must be planning on playing a few tournaments.

Post Davis Cup he probably has two choices, either head back to the states for the 3 challengers in California (Napa, Sacremento, Tiburon) or stay in Europe and play Orleans, Mons and Rennes. The European option has the potential for greater reward but will have stronger fields and he would have to qualifier for the first two. Entry deadline for Napa and Orleans in tomorrow so we might soon have a good idea as to his plans.

After that he has could look at playing ATP qualifying for a couple of weeks (Vienna, Stockholm or Moscow the first week; Valencia or Basel the second). Then there is another run of 3 challengers in the US or various options in Europe for those weeks which takes him up to mid November and practically the end of the season. Obviously I wouldn't expect him to play 8 weeks straight but 5 or 6 events in those 8 weeks would seem reasonable and if he plays well will give him a shot of making the top 100. Finally after the season is done in Europe and the States there are a couple of small challengers w/c 18/11 in Japan and Russia. Ideally he would want his season to be done by then but if he was a few points short of an Aussie Open MD spot he might be tempted.
At very least he should be able to end the season top 135, would need about 80 points, and ensure that he is seeded for Aussie Open qualifying.

-- Edited by RJA on Sunday 1st of September 2013 10:53:35 AM

Thanks RJA,

Is there not an Asian swing of ATP tournaments he could try also? Flemming mentioned that would be an option on the BBC. High risk for sure, as the best in the world would be in these tournaments, but maybe worth it considering how well he is playing?

RJA · Hall of fame

thegingerlightbulb wrote:
RJA wrote:
Dan has 331 points YTD and would need around 220 more to make the top 100. That won't be easy but it is doable and if that his aim then he must be planning on playing a few tournaments.

Post Davis Cup he probably has two choices, either head back to the states for the 3 challengers in California (Napa, Sacremento, Tiburon) or stay in Europe and play Orleans, Mons and Rennes. The European option has the potential for greater reward but will have stronger fields and he would have to qualifier for the first two. Entry deadline for Napa and Orleans in tomorrow so we might soon have a good idea as to his plans.

After that he has could look at playing ATP qualifying for a couple of weeks (Vienna, Stockholm or Moscow the first week; Valencia or Basel the second). Then there is another run of 3 challengers in the US or various options in Europe for those weeks which takes him up to mid November and practically the end of the season. Obviously I wouldn't expect him to play 8 weeks straight but 5 or 6 events in those 8 weeks would seem reasonable and if he plays well will give him a shot of making the top 100. Finally after the season is done in Europe and the States there are a couple of small challengers w/c 18/11 in Japan and Russia. Ideally he would want his season to be done by then but if he was a few points short of an Aussie Open MD spot he might be tempted.
At very least he should be able to end the season top 135, would need about 80 points, and ensure that he is seeded for Aussie Open qualifying.

-- Edited by RJA on Sunday 1st of September 2013 10:53:35 AM
Thanks RJA,
Is there not an Asian swing of ATP tournaments he could try also? Flemming mentioned that would be an option on the BBC. High risk for sure, as the best in the world would be in these tournaments, but maybe worth it considering how well he is playing?

There is an Asian swing of ATP tournaments but it is too later to enter qualifying for Beijing or Tokyo (both ATP 500s) and he won't make the cut for qualifying in Shanghai (Masters Series) so that would leave him only being able to play one tournament (Bangkok or Kuala Lumpur, both 250s) so not worth the trip.

Jan · Hall of fame

Thanks for the commentary guys. I saw the result this morning, but have since been out all day.
Yes, another win would have been brilliant, but Dan has so, so much to be proud of from this trip.
A huge "Well done" to him, and the very best of luck as he tries to carry this form on to his next tournaments.
I hope we see a lot more of Dan's great style of play in the future, and I hope what he has done acts as an inspiration to some others too.

Armchair · County player

Sorry late on in the day but I was following this match on 5 Live and I just wanted to say I thought Colin Fleming was a brilliant commentator. Thanks X

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

daisy wrote:
steven wrote:
Looks like some people didn't watch the same cartoons when they were children as I did - e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm-00hTA3nk (00:39, etc)
It's also the first place I came across the terms "varmint" and "cotton-picking" LOL

-- Edited by steven on Sunday 1st of September 2013 09:56:29 AM
I picked those up from Bonanza ...

So did I, I think, or possibly the film version of Calamity Jane... wink

daisy · County player

Stircrazy wrote:
daisy wrote:
steven wrote:
Looks like some people didn't watch the same cartoons when they were children as I did - e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm-00hTA3nk (00:39, etc)
It's also the first place I came across the terms "varmint" and "cotton-picking" LOL

-- Edited by steven on Sunday 1st of September 2013 09:56:29 AM
I picked those up from Bonanza ...
So did I, I think, or possibly the film version of Calamity Jane...

Or would it have been from The Lone Ranger and Tonto????? "what in tarnation" is another goody ...

philwrig · Hall of fame

A bit late but for its worth this is my analysis:

1st set, absolutely brilliant from Evo, nearly had Robredo, could have gone either way.
2nd set ........
3rd set I assumed Robredo was going to win comfortably in 3 but Evo stepped it up again, Robredo wavered a bit at the end.
4th set Robredo starting to really struggle with injury niggle, but Evo also starts to run out of steam slightly, could have /should have won that set though.

I personally would still have made Robredo a solid favourite for the 5th though for a whole pile of reasons.

Greg was talking about the Asian swing next for Evo and the possibility of his new management wangling a few WCs, so outside possibilties there otherwise maybe back to the challengers.

-- Edited by philwrig on Monday 2nd of September 2013 01:49:52 PM

korriban · Challenger level

I watched last night's Andy Murray press conference from NY where, amongst other things, he was asked about Dan.

Firstly he said how much he liked Dan as a person, but that he'd been frustrated at how someone so talented wasn't giving 100% (I think he said 110%!), and that he had been told by his trainers that Dan's commitment had been excellent recently.

The other thing that really fascinated me was Andy's match analysis as applied to Dan's third round. He really will be a very good pundit after he retires. He said that it was the second set, not the fourth set inexperience and rushing which was the reason Dan lost......his reasoning being that even if Dan loses the second set, if only he'd fought harder and racked up another 2 or 3 more games (rather than saving himself for set 3) that would have been enough to keep Robredo on the court for another 10-12 minutes, making it almost impossible for Robredo to then raise his game in a last gasp effort right at the end of the fourth set...........

I like this thinking: if you think there is any hint of a physical problem (and there were press comments before the match about Robredo having a leg issue), keep him honest even in a losing set, rather than saving yourself.

Jack Buxton · Club Coach

korriban wrote:
......his reasoning being that even if Dan loses the second set, if only he'd fought harder and racked up another 2 or 3 more games (rather than saving himself for set 3) that would have been enough to keep Robredo on the court for another 10-12 minutes, making it almost impossible for Robredo to then raise his game in a last gasp effort right at the end of the fourth set...........

I like this thinking also but just playing devils advocate we dont know what shape Evo was in. Perhaps he was taking a bit of a breather to give some renewed energy for the 3rd set?

RJA · Hall of fame

Jack Buxton wrote:
korriban wrote:
......his reasoning being that even if Dan loses the second set, if only he'd fought harder and racked up another 2 or 3 more games (rather than saving himself for set 3) that would have been enough to keep Robredo on the court for another 10-12 minutes, making it almost impossible for Robredo to then raise his game in a last gasp effort right at the end of the fourth set...........
I like this thinking also but just playing devils advocate we dont know what shape Evo was in. Perhaps he was taking a bit of a breather to give some renewed energy for the 3rd set?

I think it was pretty obvious that Dan was a bit tired, probably more mental than anything, from early on in the match and that after a really intense first set and poor start to the second set he probably needed to "check out" mentally for a few games. I see where Andy is coming from but would another 10-12 minutes in the second really made any difference to Robredo's ability to come back in the 4th, I seriously doubt it. More importantly what happened at the end of the 4th would never been an issue had Dan not got that far. His giving up on the end of the second set allowed him some time to regroup and get his head right for the start of the third, would that have happened if had desperately fought to keep the second set closer, obviously we will never know but I doubt it. So as much as I respect Andy I think he is wrong about this.

RJA · Hall of fame

Russell Fuller of the BBC says that the plan is for Dan to play "top tier" challenger events but he goes on to mention Tashkent (which is a $125K + H on hard court) and then Mendoza, Montevideo and Bogota, all of which are clay events in South America. Such a strategy would be extremely surprising so I would imagine that Fuller is right about the plan to play big challengers but has no idea where Dan will play and has just picked a few events off the calender at random. I still think that either the US challengers or the European indoor challengers are the most likely scenario for post Davis Cup. The Asian swing strikes me as very high risk and not the most likely way to get Dan into the top 100 by the end of the year.

korriban · Challenger level

I agree with RJA on this one. I think Dan's North American trip went well for a number of reasons.

Firstly he's a huge talent, and he clearly put in the work over a period of months, and kept things going throughout Canada and the USA on and off the practice court. It was clear, for example, that his serve got better and better (or certainly more consistent) as the trip progressed.

Secondly he was "chaperoned" by a fitness adviser and a stand-in coach.

Thirdly he was not alone - James was sharing the load on the Challenger circuit, and then Andy, Colin, Jonny and the boys picked up the pieces in NYC. I think for someone who has those demons inside him, and where loneliness and frustration could lead him to fall "off the wagon" in the early months of his new lifestyle - this type of player company is very important. Twitter, Skype and other communication tools clearly make that contact back home so much easier than even 2 or 3 years ago.

Finally he was in North America - english speaking, fun, accessible, familiar.

For those reasons, I would be very surprised if he didn't plan another North American trip - this time to California; so long as 1 or 2 other Brits also went out for the same tournaments. No ATP tournaments perhaps, but 3 solid weeks of Challengers. Europe is certainly more convenient, but the tournaments may well be more competitive and there's always the desire to nip back home, skip a week, not train on the weekend, etc.......however it certain works well from a logistical point of view, and there ought to be ATP tournament WC possibilities as well in October. I'm not saying Asia makes no sense, but it's probably more risky for Dan at the moment.......unless James and a big posse are out there anyway.

steven · Tennis legend

Yes, I agree with all that. Also re. keeping in contact with home, I'm probably completely wrong about this but I got the impression from a couple of tweets a while back that Leon might even have taken the initiative in getting him an iPhone so that he could Facetime his friends and family - if so, quite a clever bit of player support, I'd say!

There seems little doubt that Dan has benefited hugely by being around the senior GB pros like Colin and Andy, and probably from being around James at the Challengers as well. Not surprisingly, they seem to have much more time for him now he is making a real effort.