Week 31 - WTA Premier $800K - Carlsbad, CA, USA - Hard

AliBlahBlah · All-time great

RE: Week 31 - WTA Premier $800K - Carlsbad, CA, USA - Hard

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

AliBlahBlah wrote:
In baseball, Sabermetricians (the specialized analysis of baseball through objective evidence, especially baseball statistics that measure in-game activity.) have been trying for quite a while to derive a satisfactory stat that measures 'clutch', or 'clutch effectiveness', to no avail.

In their context it would be used for things like converting situations when a single hit will score runs, or multiple runs that could decide a result; or, as a pitcher, getting the required number of people out to close out or save a game, and so on.

It's such a nebulous idea that it's hard to define it well enough to measure it, but I can certainly see the value in it if it can be done.

tony_orient · ATP qualifying

AliBlahBlah wrote:
In baseball, Sabermetricians (the specialized analysis of baseball through objective evidence, especially baseball statistics that measure in-game activity.) have been trying for quite a while to derive a satisfactory stat that measures 'clutch', or 'clutch effectiveness', to no avail.

In their context it would be used for things like converting situations when a single hit will score runs, or multiple runs that could decide a result; or, as a pitcher, getting the required number of people out to close out or save a game, and so on.

It's such a nebulous idea that it's hard to define it well enough to measure it, but I can certainly see the value in it if it can be done.

As a sports fan with a job in statistics I love any intelligent attempt to combine the two.

For tennis you could do this by defining the importance of a point by the percentage impact it has on the outcome of the match depending on which way it goes (and bookmakers will have already worked this out to be able to generate live odds). You could correlate players' percentage of points won with point importance.

You might not find much though - one thing I remember from the book Moneyball is that a study on 'clutch hitters' showed that they didn't exist. Anyone who was good enough to make it to the professional game was capable of dealing with pressure situations. Even in tennis, if players are known as 'chokers' it is usually because of one or two memorable incidents rather than a consistent inability to close out a match.

steven · Tennis legend

I imagine it'll be better than the BBC's big budget coverage!

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Madeline wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
AliBlahBlah wrote:
In baseball, Sabermetricians (the specialized analysis of baseball through objective evidence, especially baseball statistics that measure in-game activity.) have been trying for quite a while to derive a satisfactory stat that measures 'clutch', or 'clutch effectiveness', to no avail.

In their context it would be used for things like converting situations when a single hit will score runs, or multiple runs that could decide a result; or, as a pitcher, getting the required number of people out to close out or save a game, and so on.

It's such a nebulous idea that it's hard to define it well enough to measure it, but I can certainly see the value in it if it can be done.

For someone so touchy when I gave a bit of friendly banter (the smiley was the clue), you don't mind dishing it out!

Your comment was intended to be friendly banter? *shakes head* Strikes me it was more an object lesson in how (not to) choose your smiley: I construed it as mockery & responded (as opposed to reacted) accordingly! The Internet claims another couple of victims! hmm

For the record, I have no interest whatsoever in baseball or any any other exclusively Yank sport & ABB's attempted explanation went straight over my head, hence my (carefully considered) choice of smileys.

philwrig · Hall of fame

I started hearing clutch back in the 90's to describe golfers who were able to hold testing short to mid range puts, basically not succumbing to pressure.
In particular used during Ryder Cup matches and at the end of majors in pressurised situations.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

steven wrote:
indiana wrote:
I really do have diifficulty with how some folk, indeed language experts, have such a reactionary attitude to many Americanisms and / or sports connected words / phrases coming into more widespread usage. To me, all languages are constantly evolving and there are to different minds good and bad additions.
I agree ... but that means we're allowed, completely subjectively, to dislike some of the additions, aren't we?
As for 'squeaky culo' ... poor Bob, getting the blame again (quite rightly though, it was him who introduced it!)

Yes. Guilty as charged - yet again !!

Thinking or re-registering under a new "nick" so I can start with a clean bill of health. Do you think if I register "Bob in Brazil", people will still know it is me ? Might be appropriate as I have now extended my stay for a further 3 weeks. Rapidly approaching a CLUTCH moment with my client as we enter squeaky culo time.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yep, I think 'Bob in Brazil' would be a perfect disguise - no one would ever guess.

You could always add a big handlebar moustache, just to be extra cautious (unless of course you already have a big handlebar moustache !!!!)

Good luck with your client at this critical moment/key moment/crucial moment/important moment . . . (I love to see language evolve - with Americanisms or any way else - but 'clutch' doesn't do it for me - I still don't really understand it . . .)

TomTraubert · Futures level

Kvitova was there for the taking virginie razzano beat her in 3 sets today!

tony_orient · ATP qualifying

TomTraubert wrote:
Kvitova was there for the taking virginie razzano beat her in 3 sets today!

Epic match - 3hrs 35 mins and both players had a few match points!

But you can't read anything into Kvitova's form from one match to the next - she's just about the least consistent player on tour and her serve stats were awful today compared to those against Laura.

In fact I have decided not to read anything into subsequent performances of players who knock the Brits out (a rule I shall no doubt break at some point smile )

WD40 · Club Coach

Kvitova's loss today was just that "a loss today", it was a different day, different conditions and a different opponent and has absolutely no relevance to her match with Laura. To state "Kvitova was there for the taking" is a total misconception.

TomTraubert · Futures level

WD40 wrote:
Kvitova's loss today was just that "a loss today", it was a different day, different conditions and a different opponent and has absolutely no relevance to her match with Laura. To state "Kvitova was there for the taking" is a total misconception.

aahh you can put it like that i guess

whole heap lot of people wasting time on things like judging form and using match results as a way to read future matches then!!!

still think this result shows a missed chance - kvitova vulnerable. take tonys point though, petra is very up and down these days.

philwrig · Hall of fame

I think Kvitova was really focussed/motivated for her match with Laura, given the loss at the Aussie Open.

WD40 · Club Coach

philwrig wrote:
I think Kvitova was really focussed/motivated for her match with Laura, given the loss at the Aussie Open.

I entirely agree, having read Kvitova's blog just before the start of competition she was expecting to face Laura and was well aware of the potential challenge.