Week 29 - Challenger (€42,500) - Eskisehir, Turkey (Hard)

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

RE: Week 29 - Challenger (€42,500) - Eskisehir, Turkey (Hard)

paulisi · Tennis legend

Good points, but made heavy weather of it.

Is that enough for a new CH for Dave?

korriban · Challenger level

Thank heavens for that! Dave wins 7-6 (2). But the whole TB, once again, was Dave playing like a 60 year old lady at the tennis club on a Wednesday morning....FH and BH slices at half pace up the middle.....little zero risk bunts waiting for mistakes......which the Turk provided in abundance, given how tight he was.

Problem is, Dave WON. Of course I'm pleased. But in many ways if Dave is serious about his singles career, I'd prefer for him to have lost today, and for a kindly soulmate like Sean or Ed Corrie to have pointed out the blindingly obvious to him. I thought Mr Klein was tentative until I watched this......why would any pro player not repeat what they did in set 1 to destroy the opposition? The mind is a bizarre thing.

spud · Challenger qualifying

Korriban,

Sometimes you have to remember that these tennis players are human and they have to make a living from it. Opportunities like this for Rice won't come around often and he will be nervous about taking it.

Do you play tennis? When you play against weaker opponents it is very hard to play your best tennis and most players levels will drop to that of their opponents... even at professional level it happens. This is through a mixture of complacency and I like to think boredom. Once you go into this shell, which it looked like Dave did, it is VERY hard to get out of. Frustrating for people watching, but how do you think Dave felt when returning to stay in the match. "How the **** did i get here" is probably likely

steven · Tennis legend

I only saw the tiebreak so can't really comment on how Dave was playing, but know what Korriban means and I think he's right.

Still, Ergüden upset a top 300 player in 3 sets in R1 last week (hence his 236-place rankings jump yesterday, making him only the 2nd Turkish player in the top 1000), so that's a banana skin avoided for Dave, who should now take out his 2-year-old career high and be on the edge of the top 400.

SC - if you avoid a seed in R1, you are extremely likely to get a seed in R2, so getting the 4th and 5th seeds isn't really a bad draw!

korriban · Challenger level

spud wrote:
Korriban,

Sometimes you have to remember that these tennis players are human and they have to make a living from it. Opportunities like this for Rice won't come around often and he will be nervous about taking it.

Do you play tennis? When you play against weaker opponents it is very hard to play your best tennis and most players levels will drop to that of their opponents... even at professional level it happens. This is through a mixture of complacency and I like to think boredom. Once you go into this shell, which it looked like Dave did, it is VERY hard to get out of. Frustrating for people watching, but how do you think Dave felt when returning to stay in the match. "How the **** did i get here" is probably likely

I know. I do play, and I've experienced the same thing....mostly OK players slumming it at my very average level!

It really is ALL in the mind, and the mind CAN be tamed, or at least trained......there are some players who seem to suffer from this automatic reaction to go ultra safe when playing key games (if serving out a set, or serving to stay in a set), or when well up in big matches, whereas others don't, or have learned how to stay positive/aggressive. All I'm saying is that we have a few repeat offenders amongst the GB mens' roster......which is a shame because cracking this mental problem would earn them a few hundred ranking spots p.a. and many thousands of additional dollars.

Just bought Dr Steve Peters book.....and he talks of techniques and processes to construct and execute a winning gameplan, and then maintain the logical, rational and calm approach at times of high stress or lack of clarity......when emotion, fear, worry, external concerns are all encouraging the mind to go on a massive walkabout......now I understand just why the Sky cycling factory comes across as so ruthless......and the LTA needs to invest strongly in this area, as tennis is a 1 on 1 gladitorial sport. Cheaper and better VFM than the NTC, I suspect.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I agree. I also play competitive tennis (not Dave Rice's level!) and know all to well the syndrome you're talking about Spud.

However, it's because it's so common and well-known that you'd expect an experienced professional player to have better methods to deal with it (as K says).

Common tactical advice from coaches is to go for broke at 4-1 or 5-2 down in the second set, for instance. Assume the set is over and swing freely as though it's a training session. That way, either you suddenly turn the second set round or you lose the second set but you start the third back in the groove, actually hitting the ball and not just pushing it.
Some players use air shots very effectively to achieve the same end (Marion Bartoli for instance).
Some players return 'out' serves or hit 'out' balls very aggressively i.e. anything to get you hitting through the ball properly.
Some players have 'mind' game strategies - visualisation techniques for instance - which work very well.

I'm happy Dave won (he's still one of my faves, I'm not fickle) and, as Steven says, his opponent is no slouch and maybe just played a horrendous first set by his standards and lulled Dave into a false sense of security. I also saw Dave play at the wimbly qualies where he played a really unimpressive match but it was enough to win against an inferior opponent and then went on to play a lot better (but lost . . .).
So, here's hoping . . .

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

steven wrote:
SC - if you avoid a seed in R1, you are extremely likely to get a seed in R2, so getting the 4th and 5th seeds isn't really a bad draw!

I know, I know, but I looked at the ranking disparities & couldn't resist a bleh ! You could also look at it from another perspective: had Ed or Dave drawn Dudi Sela (1) in the first round, one or other, instead of Blaz Rola, would have been facing Gilad Ben Zvi (LL/WR 1222) in the first round &, assuming he won, another Turkish WC (Anil Yüksel, WR 1105) or Maximilian Neuchrist (WR 363) in the last 16... wink

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

R1: Teymuraz Gabashvili & Uladzimir Ignatik (RUS/BLR) CR 610 defeated James Cluskey (IRL) & Ed Corrie CR 681 by 7-6(9) 6-4 cry

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

R1: (3) David Rice & Sean Thornley CR 414 defeated (ALT) Luís Antonio Pérez Pérez & Adrian Sikora (ESP/SVK) UNR by 3 & 1 smile

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

R1: Evgeny Karlovskiy & Lovro Zovko (RUS/CRO) CR 1348 defeated Nicoloz Basilashvili (GEO) & Brydan Klein CR 931 by 3-6 7-5 [10-5]

****

QF: Evgeny Karlovskiy & Lovro Zovko (RUS/CRO) CR 1348 vs (3) David Rice & Sean Thornley CR 413

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Ed covers the 10 points he has coming off, serving out to 30 :

L16: Ed Corrie WR 337 defeated (4) Uladzimir Ignatik (BLR) WR 167 by 1 & 4 biggrin

Serious points to be earned from here on in... wink

-- Edited by Stircrazy on Wednesday 17th of July 2013 09:29:33 AM

korriban · Challenger level

Dave played a hyper aggressive return game to break earlier in the set, but now back on serve.

Not watching much, but from what I've seen he's gradually starting to get more and more tentative as we approach the end of the set. If he carries on playing in this way (i.e. completely differently to how he kicked off), I don't think he can win: true, he came back from *4-5 15-30 to 5-5 through his opponent making 3 UEs, but he's completely relying on what's happening over the other side of the net. Could even win a set, or the match if Chiudinelli playes badly, but it's not a winning strategy long term.

We'll see.

-- Edited by korriban on Wednesday 17th of July 2013 10:10:00 AM

steven · Tennis legend

30-15, 30-30, double fault gives MC a break back point, which Dave saves ... now a set point - Dave serves a fault and Marco goes nuts at himself for some reason ... and Dave wins the point with a 2nd serve ace, I think, to take the 1st set 7-5

-- Edited by steven on Wednesday 17th of July 2013 10:12:39 AM

korriban · Challenger level

Coup Droit wrote:
With an ace on SP, Dave wins the first set!!!

Now, hopefully, there's Sean or someone sitting in the stands who'll shout at him to carry on and HIT the blinkin' ball - it's hard when your 'go-to' game is obviously cautious - you need a coach or someone to keep you to the game plan.

But I'm not knocking the man, winning the first set against the number 5 seed WR162 - brilliant! Now onwards and upwards . . .

Yes brilliant. But at 2-2, we are now bordering on full scale "pushing" from Dave which either results in a Swiss error (as Chiudinelli comes forward to attack) or Dave tamely half hitting into the net......if he wins, he wins, BUT......

.....and I'll guarantee it's not being done on purpose. How tall is Mr Rice....6'3? 6'4? Surely power ought to be an asset.

-- Edited by korriban on Wednesday 17th of July 2013 10:38:36 AM