Week 26 - Belgium F2 ($10,000) - Havré (Clay)

LordBrownof · Futures level

Week 26 - Belgium F2 ($10,000) - Havré (Clay)

RJA · Hall of fame

If I was to be unusually generous to Oli I would admit that at his age I had similar feelings after certain events but fortunately I didn't have the opportunity that twitter provides to display my immaturity to such a wide audience. Of course Oli is in a very different position to me in that he is allegedly a professional sportsman, or at very least aspires to be one.

korriban · Challenger level

LordBrownof wrote:
Slight overreaction. Being a twitter user, I've been tempted to write passive agressive tweets (or agressive agressive tweets!) after a particularly difficult day at work. I'm not a professional sportsman but I am a professional and I should know better, like Oli. But give the boy a break - he's frustrated and angry and a teenager, and what the guy said was way out of line. He'll know more than anyone else that throwing his toys out of the pram isn't going to win him matches. It's just going to take a little time and a little maturity - but it's no big deal.

I think how often this forum reacts negatively to Oli and I then compare it with the generosity afforded to people like Dan Evans after his numerous indiscretions. It's not exactly consistent (that's a general comment, not aimed at the people who written about Oli on this thread btw).

-- Edited by LordBrownof on Friday 28th of June 2013 06:32:12 AM

Perhaps. I think the forum forgives Dan when he lets his tennis do the talking, and if Oli performed on the tennis court we'd all be a lot more even handed about his indiscretions. Unfortunately, behaving like Kevin the teenager from Harry Enfield whilst receiving massive funding support and also not winning tennis matches is a triple whammy. Hope he turns things around

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

LordBrownof wrote:
Slight overreaction. Being a twitter user, I've been tempted to write passive agressive tweets (or agressive agressive tweets!) after a particularly difficult day at work. I'm not a professional sportsman but I am a professional and I should know better, like Oli. But give the boy a break - he's frustrated and angry and a teenager, and what the guy said was way out of line. He'll know more than anyone else that throwing his toys out of the pram isn't going to win him matches. It's just going to take a little time and a little maturity - but it's no big deal.

I think how often this forum reacts negatively to Oli and I then compare it with the generosity afforded to people like Dan Evans after his numerous indiscretions. It's not exactly consistent (that's a general comment, not aimed at the people who written about Oli on this thread btw).

-- Edited by LordBrownof on Friday 28th of June 2013 06:32:12 AM

You've got a fair point. It IS interesting to see that there's a bit of a difference in the reaction to Dan and Oli.

And, in one way, I'm slightly in the pro-Oli camp - as I said previously, Oli is still of an age where he's being 'studenty' - I'll cut him a little slack. Dan has come out of that phase now and has to really up the ante.

However, Dan (with James and others) just 'won' the Davis Cup for us. Dan gave us all a real thrill when he cut through the players at Queens, David v Goliath style.

As Korriban says, as long as the misdemeanors are minor, we'll forgive pretty much anything if the tennis does the talking. Oli's results, unfortunately, (and for whatever reason), continue to be disappointing vis-a-vis where he was a couple of years ago.

I think he;s got plenty of time, and plenty of skill, and plenty of backing and resources. Absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be top 200 pretty soon. Well, no reason in theory . . .

huntley93 · Strong Club Player

Coup Droit wrote:
LordBrownof wrote:
Slight overreaction. Being a twitter user, I've been tempted to write passive agressive tweets (or agressive agressive tweets!) after a particularly difficult day at work. I'm not a professional sportsman but I am a professional and I should know better, like Oli. But give the boy a break - he's frustrated and angry and a teenager, and what the guy said was way out of line. He'll know more than anyone else that throwing his toys out of the pram isn't going to win him matches. It's just going to take a little time and a little maturity - but it's no big deal.

I think how often this forum reacts negatively to Oli and I then compare it with the generosity afforded to people like Dan Evans after his numerous indiscretions. It's not exactly consistent (that's a general comment, not aimed at the people who written about Oli on this thread btw).

-- Edited by LordBrownof on Friday 28th of June 2013 06:32:12 AM

You've got a fair point. It IS interesting to see that there's a bit of a difference in the reaction to Dan and Oli.
And, in one way, I'm slightly in the pro-Oli camp - as I said previously, Oli is still of an age where he's being 'studenty' - I'll cut him a little slack. Dan has come out of that phase now and has to really up the ante.
However, Dan (with James and others) just 'won' the Davis Cup for us. Dan gave us all a real thrill when he cut through the players at Queens, David v Goliath style.
As Korriban says, as long as the misdemeanors are minor, we'll forgive pretty much anything if the tennis does the talking. Oli's results, unfortunately, (and for whatever reason), continue to be disappointing vis-a-vis where he was a couple of years ago.
I think he;s got plenty of time, and plenty of skill, and plenty of backing and resources. Absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be top 200 pretty soon. Well, no reason in theory . . .

going by this theory brydan klein will soon become a forum favourite should he pick up a few titles! biggrin wink smile

RJA · Hall of fame

LordBrownof wrote:
Slight overreaction. Being a twitter user, I've been tempted to write passive agressive tweets (or agressive agressive tweets!) after a particularly difficult day at work. I'm not a professional sportsman but I am a professional and I should know better, like Oli. But give the boy a break - he's frustrated and angry and a teenager, and what the guy said was way out of line. He'll know more than anyone else that throwing his toys out of the pram isn't going to win him matches. It's just going to take a little time and a little maturity - but it's no big deal.

I think how often this forum reacts negatively to Oli and I then compare it with the generosity afforded to people like Dan Evans after his numerous indiscretions. It's not exactly consistent (that's a general comment, not aimed at the people who written about Oli on this thread btw).

Well maybe we are being a bit harsh but I think that comes from a frustration that Oli's results are not where they should be and a sense that his tweets yesterday indicate why. It is bad enough to let your opponent wind you up but to then broadcast to the world (and thus your future opponents) that it happened is really pretty dumb. Now maybe I am being unfair, maybe what he meant was "I am really angry at myself for letting it happen" but it really didn't come across that way. Now just to be clear, I have a lot of time for Oli. He is an immensely talented lad and he seems like a pretty good guy but I fear that he has a touch of naivety and immaturity that is really holding him back at the moment. It is tough enough to make it as a tennis player without handing you opponents something to use against you.

As for the comparisons with Evans. Well I think that Evo's indiscretions receive considerable criticism as well. It is almost impossible to read a newspaper article about him or watch a televised match without the obligatory references to his past. Naturally in the aftermath of a huge Davis cup win or beating the world number 37 at Queen's there is going to be a forgiving attitude and I am sure that if Oli wins a couple of futures or a challenger he will receive an appropriate level of praise.

Spectator · All-time great

I don't always understand the comments re: Mr Golding's results. As ABB has shown, while he's not a Jiri Vesely, neither are the rest of his peers. He may be one who takes a little longer to pull it all together. The talent is there, so I'd be inclined to give him time.

I do understand the sense that someone who is fully funded needs to work hard at maximising his talents ... and that if his primary weaknesses include mental vulnerability and poor behaviour, he needs to work on those. But that's a separate question from results.

As for Mr Evans, I don't see the sense in our getting more excited than he does about his general failure (thus far) to maximise his talent. It's his choice what he does - we may want to see him do well, but we're just fans. If he has other priorities, that's his business. I wouldn't favour serious LTA funding for him unless he's prepared to work, though. If you have the ability to be the kind of player who could earn enough to pay your own way ... but choose not to use that ability to the fullest ... you can't expect others to pick up the slack.

RJA · Hall of fame

Spectator wrote:
I don't always understand the comments re: Mr Golding's results. As ABB has shown, while he's not a Jiri Vesely, neither are the rest of his peers. He may be one who takes a little longer to pull it all together. The talent is there, so I'd be inclined to give him time.

Well yes, but then I don't think anybody is suggesting that we don't give Oli time.

SMC1809 · All-time great

I'm surprised people think Dan is given an easy time. A quick look at a few posts will show this definitely isn't the case.

Spectator · All-time great

Jeff Stelling wrote:
Oli's earlier tweet aimed at this board? Maybe some need to climb down from their ivory towers....

Looking at said tweet (or at least the one I assume you meant), possibly so, and if so probably somewhat justified. Though a number of people are responding not to things that they haven't seen, but to the response to situations on Twitter itself. But I'll put up my hand and admit that, on re-reading, I feel my own previous post is decidedly more Olympian (in the sense of "coming from ivory towers on high," not Olympic Games) than I have any right to be!

-- Edited by Spectator on Saturday 29th of June 2013 04:18:24 AM

Jeff Stelling · Club Coach

Oli's earlier tweet aimed at this board? Maybe some need to climb down from their ivory towers....

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I'm sorry but Oli;s tweet makes no difference to me.

And I was (see previous posts) - and still am - definitely in the camp of 'give him a bit of time, the jury's out, he's still going through his 'student days'. Indeed, I have every expectation that he'll be at least a top 200 player.

But Oli is missing the point. He says that we shouldn't comment on the situation because we weren't there. But the point is, Oli, that you put it out there by tweeting about it. What people were telling you is that if you publicly have a little rant about players winding you up, then the other players who read it/retweet it will know you're vulnerable to being wound up.

It was advice, as much as criticism. And maybe a different approach, Oli, would be to consider paying heed to it . . . .

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Saturday 29th of June 2013 08:03:26 AM

korriban · Challenger level

Jeff Stelling wrote:
Oli's earlier tweet aimed at this board? Maybe some need to climb down from their ivory towers....

Maybe some need to stop getting into spats with their opponents on a regular basis, swearing repeatedly during matches, hurling their racquets round the court like an angry toddler, and making statements on public forums which could be regarded as unprofessional or immature by the LTA, financial backers and sponsors, or young tennis fans alike. Whether Oli was winning or losing I'd feel the same way, and I rather suspect that most of the stakeholders invested in his career would be like-minded. In fact, if he is not being told precisely the same thing by his coaches, the LTA, his sponsors and his friends, I'd be staggered. Hence the strong reaction (we all do the same when told a few home truths that we don't like).

I would be delighted if Oli started winning more often than he does, winning against better opponents than he does, and climbing the rankings faster than he has. Unconditionally. In my opinion, this is considerably less likely to happen any time soon whilst this behaviour continues......and it would be a shame if his 2013 ended up as a write-off where he treads water or goes backwards.

-- Edited by korriban on Saturday 29th of June 2013 08:36:16 AM

indiana · Tennis legend

I share SMC's surprise that Dan is given a generally easy time. Certainly cast back before the last few months and there has been a heck of a lot of negativity re such as his ( non ) consistency and seeming ( non ) application at times.

I am well aware of such discussions having joined in with criticism , for which I make no apology when I hear Evo admitting some of it himself. Hopefully he is finally getting the message.

Re Oli, as I have said before, I remain expectant that he will be a top 200 player and very possibly a top 100 player. He is taking his time to mature and learn priorities, but folk do mature at different paces and after maybe some more relatively difficult times I think he could quite suddenly push on again at some stage.

Maybe not, and to some extent it is gut feeling about Oli. The guy has talent and I do feel it is possible one or two folk may regret largely writing him off as a future top player based on this recent relatively poor period vis a vis some of his contemparies.

Hmm, A used ti be better than B, but now B has suddenly got.much better than A so it was all really overhype about A and he is destined not to make it. When A and B are teenage tennis players, particularly at a time when players are breaking through and reaching their peak later than ever, this is simplistic nonsense.

Yes, I'd love to see Oli mature quicker both on and off the court, and those tweets are pretty embarrassing. But he is what he is, a young guy still finding his way in tennis and in life, and not getting much empathy at all by some. I trust coaches etc are giving him the right messages and advice to help him turn things around.

RJA · Hall of fame

If Oli's tweet was aimed at this board, and it may well not have been, it would only justify the criticism he has received on here. If he wants to be a professional sportsman he needs to learn that what he says and does in public will be scrutinised and if a bit of mild criticism from people who really want to see him do well upsets him then he really needs to grow a thicker skin. What has been said on here is absolutely nothing compared to the kind of stick he will get in the coming years if he makes the top 100 or so. Look at the way Boggo has been treated by the British press or that horrible article wrote about Bally last week. Just imagine two years time. Oli ranked about 180 in world, gets a wild card to Wimbledon and loses in the first round to a qualifier. Certain sections of the media would no doubt report about how our one time most promising youngster had 'again' flopped on the big stage after years of the most generous and lavish funding that the LTA could provide. Further imagine that he was to respond to such articles with a couple of angry tweets and then shudder as you contemplate the consequences of that. He would be absolute slaughtered.