LTA Funding and Participation

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

RE: LTA Funding and Participation

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Extremely well said, The Optimist.

I don't really follow matrix funding but, again, just to mention how it's done, by and large, in France (different age groups are done a bit differently).

A top player will have several tournaments in the year highlighted as non-optional, 'key' tournaments. These are where results really matter. (National championships will always be in that group).

All the other tournaments will be a matter of choice (player, coach, family) and can be treated as you like. Practice. Fun. Get victories.

Someone who plays a zillion ITFs and makes the quarters each time and picks up a lot of points will be rated by the FFT far below someone who only plays a couple, has a low ITF ranking, but wins the nationals or whatever other 'key' tournament it is.

The idea is to get a balance between winning (important skill), proving your worth (important - have to justify the spending somehow) and developing as a player at your own pace (absolutely vital). Obviously, if you get sick before a key tournmanet that's a shame but allowances will be made. If you just have an off-week, though, that's a problem. Learn not to have off-weeks at key moments. And do that by 'allowing' yourself to have off-weeks at other times by taking the stress off the constant chase for ranking points.

paulisi · Tennis legend

I would love the LTA to rank juniors only on tournaments scheduled during half term and school holidays and restrict to their best 6. This would mean all significant domestic junior tournaments are scheduled in this period.

This was one of the problems at Liverpool last week. One kid had to take a day off school on the Friday to sign in for qualifying and then his mother was worried he may have to miss school on the Monday if he was to win his final qualifier.

Any other tournaments are at their own cost or discretion unless they have shown ability to compete at the top level, where funding may be applicable.

I'm also of the opinion that the LTA should be pushing all players over the age of 16 into senior tournaments at the expense of juniors, unless they lack the experience of ITF tournament play.

indiana · Tennis legend

Great post, The Optimist.

I think quite a number here have repeatedly questioned such concentration on trying to make stars out of a very small sub section of youngsters, who take up tennis ( are taken to tennis ) at a very early age and then stand out early, as opposed to much wider talent identification programs and bringing other fine athletes / ball players into the sport. So many profiles point to taken up tennis at like 4 - 7 at the outside. While all things being equal, which they're not, that should clearly help, I certainly believe youngsters could "find" tennis at a much later date and make it.

Sorry, waffling a bit off subject. Changing to a less matrix target and results based development system does seem good. I get the impression there has been such focus on matrices, because of previous criticism ( possibly correct ) re in crowds and favouring. But it has become far to numbers / results orientated ( while still an important element ) to the detriment of overall development. There has to be a subjective element, what is needed is to have people in place that can fairly judge based on a combination of the subjective and the objective in the best interests of the development of British tennis as a whole.

I can read a matrix, those folk should possess much greater ability and other skills to help identify those who can most benefit themselves and British tennis from support.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

paulisi wrote:
I would love the LTA to rank juniors only on tournaments scheduled during half term and school holidays and restrict to their best 6. This would mean all significant domestic junior tournaments are scheduled in this period.

This was one of the problems at Liverpool last week. One kid had to take a day off school on the Friday to sign in for qualifying and then his mother was worried he may have to miss school on the Monday if he was to win his final qualifier.

Any other tournaments are at their own cost or discretion unless they have shown ability to compete at the top level, where funding may be applicable.

I'm also of the opinion that the LTA should be pushing all players over the age of 16 into senior tournaments at the expense of juniors, unless they lack the experience of ITF tournament play.

In fairness, LTA sanctioned junior domestic tournaments are scheduled during school holidays and at weekends and only the best 6 results from these do count towards a junior's domestic ranking.

Until about 4 years ago TE and ITF junior ranking points affected the domestic junior rankings in the same way that WTA ranking points currently affect the LTA adult domestic rankings. This was changed and the reason given was that it prevented those juniors unable to play abroad from having the satisfaction of rising to the top of their age group rankings. Whilst this argument has merit, it has also meant that the junior domestic rankings have been devalued above 12&U as they no longer include the top players.

After the 12&U age group, top level matrix funding has largely been based upon international results so those in the mix have been either from wealthier families or have shone in the young age groups and so been funded to travel / been part of organised trips. International trips do require time off school and require a real leap of faith for parents unless the LTA is right behind them and thus harder for those not selected for support at 12&U or younger. With all the resources poured into those selected (including worldwide travel for a nominal fee to the family), those initially selected in the younger age groups are the only ones who can fulfil the selection criteria for funding and support as they move through the older age groups.

Some of the selected kids are clearly good picks but this system has not really reflected our sporting culture. In Eastern Europe for example, it is traditional for children to try a couple of sports or music or whatever very young and then to focus exclusively on the activity to which they seem best suited. Here (and in the USA and Australia), children will try lots of things over a few years and if sport is their thing they will probably play several, finally focussing on their favourite around 12-13 yo. This is not the same as picking a racquet up at 13, they already have some good tennis skills and they have fitness, footwork and mental skills from their other sports. The many kids who fall into this category are missed by the current system no matter how strongly they develop. James Ward springs to mind here. How much further and faster would he have travelled in his career if he had focused fully on tennis at 7 or 8 and received the constant help and support dished out to his peers, instead of focussing at 11-12 and having to complete almost the entire journey on his own?

Tennis Nut · Social player

The Optimist wrote:
Personally, I think the way the schedules of our top juniors have been built around getting results and junior ranking points is the biggest reason for the much publicised problems in transitioning into seniors. And it's not just the fully funded few big names, any youngster on the top level of matrix funding or with any kind of travel assistance has their tournament schedule vetted and adjusted by the LTA. Even at the lower levels, players are constantly chasing results - to be ranked high enough to get into tournaments at all, to get to a talent-ID camp, to become a FutureStar.
It's an oft-stated maxim that you often have to get worse to get better and our better juniors have not been given that freedom. Learning how to win matches is a valuable skill (as I'm sure Korri would agree!) but if prized above all else in the junior years it really can stunt a player's long-term development. During the junior years players need to be relaxed about taking risks in matches, trying out new things and not worrying unduly if they lose a few matches by doing so. Otherwise they end up with a great, error free, junior game but without the confidence necessary to add the extra things they need to progress on the pro circuit. I think one of the reasons Kyle has come through is that he was at Reeds and his schedule was to a large extent set by the school. On working with Beechy, his schedule stood out from the other young GB players as one focussing on his development rather than rankings (think of that long spell playing big qualifying tournaments in the States). His ranking gradually developed as his game and skills improved. (As a side issue, I think that is what has changed for him this year. With a string of high profile events and a celebrity coach, he has felt the pressure to win, rather than just to play his best tennis as in the past.)
Regarding the removal of junior matrix funding - hooray! It hasn't helped GB juniors at all in the grand scheme of things but I don't have good feelings about how it is to be replaced. Once again, the focus is all going to be on real youngsters with those showing real potential getting helped. Sounds to me like same old same old. A few kids picked young getting everything all the way through - the Ren sisters anybody? (Lovely girls though they are.). Tennis is not a high participation sport in this country at the competitive level. The LTA performance team should earn their money getting out and about and looking at kids (and young pros) of all ages in training and competition and give targeted help to whoever, and at whatever age, where it would make a significant difference to the player moving on and up. Once again, I fear we are still going to be left with an elite group of players from those whose parents knew how to play the system early, missing out again on those who are good general athletes but focus specifically on tennis slightly later and those who follow any kind of normal school system or who are just not from tennis-wise families.

I agree with much of what you have said but to correct you reference Kyle Edmund - he did not attend Reeds School and all of his tennis development, training and tournament scheduling whether good or bad has be managed between Kyle, his coach and his parents.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Tennis Nut wrote:
The Optimist wrote:

I agree with much of what you have said but to correct you reference Kyle Edmund - he did not attend Reeds School and all of his tennis development, training and tournament scheduling whether good or bad has be managed between Kyle, his coach and his parents.

Apologies for the error. I genuinely believed he had gone there but must be thinking of someone else. This will bother me all afternoon now while I try to work out who I have confused him with. confuse

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

The Optimist wrote:
Tennis Nut wrote:
The Optimist wrote:

I agree with much of what you have said but to correct you reference Kyle Edmund - he did not attend Reeds School and all of his tennis development, training and tournament scheduling whether good or bad has be managed between Kyle, his coach and his parents.
Apologies for the error. I genuinely believed he had gone there but must be thinking of someone else. This will bother me all afternoon now while I try to work out who I have confused him with.

To name just a few that went to Reeds: Tim Henman, Evan Hoyt, Toby Martin, Jack Carpenter. I am sure there were others as well.

baxi2 · Lower Club Player

Kyle came through the system via the efforts of John Black probably pound for pound the most successful (in recent times) British performance coach having brought through Kyle ,Harriet Dart and Jocelyn Rae amongst others ! Really surprised we dont see his name mentioned on this forum !

EddietheEagle · County player

The Optimist wrote:
Tennis Nut wrote:
The Optimist wrote:

I agree with much of what you have said but to correct you reference Kyle Edmund - he did not attend Reeds School and all of his tennis development, training and tournament scheduling whether good or bad has be managed between Kyle, his coach and his parents.
Apologies for the error. I genuinely believed he had gone there but must be thinking of someone else. This will bother me all afternoon now while I try to work out who I have confused him with.

Evan Hoyt?

steven · Tennis legend

Josh Goodall's latest blog is a good read - www.joshuagoodall.com/upcoming-events--blogs.html - worth remembering it's only one side of some of the stories but it's interesting to read about some of the background to his career and some of the things he thinks make a difference (most of which make sense) - I doubt many of us would argue with his assertion that players shouldn't spend most of their time playing junior tennis for too long but should instead get exposure to the adult game as quickly as possible.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Quite an interesting round-up of the year's tennis, according to Mike Dickson:

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2852497/Andy-Murray-remains-gold-standard-2014-comes-end-cautious-grounds-optimism-British-tennis-moving-right-direction.html

paulisi · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Quite an interesting round-up of the year's tennis, according to Mike Dickson:

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2852497/Andy-Murray-remains-gold-standard-2014-comes-end-cautious-grounds-optimism-British-tennis-moving-right-direction.html

And Paul M response was quite enlightening.

PaulM · Tennis legend

I came off a bit more critical than I had intended, it is a good summary of the year, with James rightly taking the lead, and Mike is one of the few (only) who care able the players who are not Andy, Laura or Heather. I just thought it was unfairly critical on the women to look at rankings in complete isolation, and I also felt the progress of Katy, Katie and to a lesser extent Harriet suggest there is hope for some new names to continue advancing upwards in 2015.

-- Edited by PaulM on Friday 28th of November 2014 03:24:12 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

A heartfelt plea to the the ITF but with relevance to the LTA (and all federations) too:

www.batennisworld.com/a-players-plea-to-the-itf/