LTA Funding and Participation

Spectator · All-time great

RE: LTA Funding and Participation

PockyTastic · Futures level

Interesting to read more about Lisa. The article links to her website (she's looking for sponsorship) and on there is a video of her training. She does indeed slice the majority of her backhands (and to an untrained eye like mine it looks really good), and she does hit one maybe two backhand drives in the video (singlehandedly) which suggests she hasn't abandoned it all together.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Lisa is unusual in this day and age in that she is, I believe, largely self-taught in tennis and therefore has a fairly unique style which later coaching has not greatly altered (until fairly recently at least, when she started attending an HPC as part of the AASE scheme). A good sliced backhand and an extraordinary serve which developed from her bowling action in her first sport of cricket rather than from any coaching manual.

She truly loves playing tennis and whether up or down in the score is always cheerfully going about her business on the court. I think the HPC in Brighton has tried to increase her range of shots and improve her footwork and serve. Louis C would not therefore have been that impressed with her driven backhand as it is a shot she is learning rather than an established one. Agree though that this visit to Sussex seems a strange use of his time.

BTW, thought Lisa had put a good site together and is showing good initiative in taking some coaching exams and also offering stringing. By feeding stories to the local paper, including this one, she is presumably building up a strong profile in the local area which may help her with sponsorship.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Otto wrote:
I think this comment must have been taken out of context as it's not possible to play with only a slice backhand. I'm sure he was talking about the way Graff would construct and switch in the pattern with her slice.
Oh and Louis Cayer is Canadian.

Yours is the voice of reason and common sense, Otto, but the sceptics that are me and Indy win in this case, I'm afraid . . .

Or, at least:

Having suddenly been stood up this morning, and being near Waterloo, I decided to dash off to Surbiton. Got there just as Lisa and Tiffany were warming up. And I saw the whole match, start to finish (as well as Lucy's on the court next to it).

AND the girl did not hit one backhand, top-spin or flat driven shot, the whole match...... it was 100% slice (unless I missed one while looking at Lucy).

And the slice is certainly good, but not vicious. So, I'm afraid Mr. Cayer might have something to answer for.....

Although, frankly, the backhand is not the issue.

I'm glad The O. shed some light on things because I would have said otherwise that her coach should be shot. However, how is it that a girl with good ball skills, and good acceleration and (says The O) loves tennis, how has she been allowed to go through being self-taught? (Maybe not enough time for tennis AND cricket AND school etc. ???)

Her technique is not unorthodox, it's bad. Her serve is really poor (both technically and practically i.e. have a 'wrong' technique if it works OK (like Milts), but if the end result is really poor, something needs to be done). And her forehand (where she has natural talent) is not right either, with expected results. (And I'm not talking about natural variation, but basics).

So my point would be that what we are told Mr Cayer said seems to be true (and universally accepted as bad advice), and what he didn't say (as far as we know because it's true that maybe they didn't publish that bit) is what is desperately needed for her to take her tennis to the next level. Good job . . . hmm

indiana · Tennis legend

If Lisa's HPC in Brighton was / is trying to increase her range of shots among other things ( and from what CD says, there are a lot of other things to work on ), the mind does wonder about what they thought of Mr Cayer's apparent advice re her backhand.

From what was written in the newspaper article, as earlier suggested probably largely provided by Lisa herself, she really liked what Mr Cayer was telling her and suggesting re her backhand and ( oh dear !? ) is indeed apparently going with it in matches.

-- Edited by indiana on Monday 8th of June 2015 05:44:38 PM

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Just for clarity. I believe Lisa gradually gave up cricket as she became more involved in tennis and has not done the 2 sports concurrently for some while. Also, she was in full time regular school at least until GCSEs were over. Not sure about the last year or so, but she must still be doing some sort of education to be accepted onto the AASE scheme. She has had some coaching over the years but I don't believe it started until her self-taught game was fairly well established.

I'm interested in your comments on her serve CD. Haven't seen her play for about a year but her serve was totally unorthodox but fairly effective. She used to throw the ball up REALLY high, whizz her arm round in a complete circle without a bend in the elbow (just like a fast bowler) and 'bowl' the ball over the net. Unlike any tennis action you have ever seen BUT it was very hard to read which way she was going with it and so was quite effective, even if there was no possibility of any variation with it. I understand the HPC have been giving her a new serve so maybe she is caught between what feels natural and what she is being taught.

The most important bit of your comments though is how does a girl like Lisa get to late teens before getting any serious help. It really highlights what has been wrong with the LTA's talent ID efforts. When they we're looking at 8yos, Lisa was playing cricket, developing good ball skills and movement and not noticed. The group of 8yos gradually got whittled down over the years with no extra players added unless they suddenly beat all the already identified youngsters out of sight. I have come across so many Lisas over the years who have the right attitude and basic ingredients to do well in the game with the right help and coaching but who just weren't in the right place when the LTA was handing out the coaching and development prizes. I know people will look at her now and say she has too much that needs work to get anywhere but it's more a case of what might have been if she'd had the right input earlier on.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

So funny you said that, The O - I now know that I've seen her before, albeit only for 5-10 minutes. Can't quite remember where, probably a BT event somewhere, but her face wasn't familiar. And lots of the girls look rather similar from afar, with long blonde hair (one of my reasons for a soft spot for Mollie Crouch - now that girl has really funky hairstyles

- loved the one yesterday with the back and sides shaved and normal brown, and the top hair longer, blonde, and in a natty baby French plait - very chic !).

But I definitely remember seeing someone blonde with EXACTLY the action you're talking about.....

However, it's now changed.

Still got a really high ball toss (way too high to be ideal), but now bends her arm. But then comes round too soon, so is hitting it too face on, rather like bowling her body, but the arm is now a sort of forearm swat. (Mind you, there were a few major variations going on throughout the match, so is obviously a work in progress, nothing really engrained yet, which might be encouraging, in a peverse way). But not good at all.....

I completely agree re the LTA and detections that are done way too early, with no flexibility for latecomers etc. However, the French are guilty of that too. The difference there is that the club coaches are very good, and cheap, so everyone basically learns a pretty good technique, from whatever age you start, and however naturally you take to it, or not. And so the others can still come through and prove themselves. Why wasn't Lisa having club lessons or whatever? (especially if she wasn't still doing cricket at the time). Or was she, and the coach 'let' her play like that?

EddietheEagle · County player

Rusedski couldn't hit a topspin backhand either, certainly not with any regularity.

-- Edited by EddietheEagle on Tuesday 9th of June 2015 02:54:13 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

he could serve though ..... and had a pretty classic forehand......I don't think you'll find many (any) similarities between Greg and Lisa......