Wimbledon 'Battle of the Boards' replacement competition

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

RE: Wimbledon 'Battle of the Boards' replacement competition

steven · Tennis legend

korriban wrote:
If Andy beats Nole in the final, think I might be forced to make a speech by Sue Barker as runner up, but Bob would be holding the trophy saying that my time may come one day.
Still reeling from being on the wrong end of four 5 set matches in round 1, and Stan Wawrinka playing like he'd forgotten how good he is on day 1!
Go Bob!

Yes, I think you'd be 2nd - someone needs to tell her to get the tissues ready wink

Also, good to see that even with a couple of the BTers at/near the top of the table playing for other teams, BT are a long way ahead in the teams comp (hardly surprising looking at the top of the individual table) and thrashing the AM.commers in particular to bits despite Andy doing well!

-- Edited by steven on Thursday 4th of July 2013 12:33:01 AM

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

I have absolutely no idea how the points are calculated confuse so I am not going to sleep too well tonight cry . I know I have down a Muzza v Nole final so I am hoping that is enough to see me home

Enlightenment would help me sleep smile

steven · Tennis legend

1 point per R1 winner, 2 points per R2 winner, etc, up to 6 points for each SF win and 7 for the correct winner, assuming T3nnisfan hasn't changed the scoring system for the last two rounds.

I think all you need is for Andy to reach the Final or Nole not to win the title.

Xtreme11 has Nole beating Fed in the Final, so can only beat you (by 1 point) if Andy fails to reach the Final and Nole wins the title.

I've got Nole beating Andy in the Final, which would give us both 158 points, but if that happened you would beat me on the 2nd tiebreak (if points are equal, R1 points break the tie and if R1 points still can't separate people, R2 points are compared) - that had better not happen, because then I would be doubly gutted!

Nobody picked Janowicz to get this far, let alone any further, and none of the 4 Potty pickers can catch you.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

So what is the difference between "points" and "ranking points" (right hand column) where I am shown with 683 points ?

korriban · Challenger level

If Andy beats Nole in the final, think I might be forced to make a speech by Sue Barker as runner up, but Bob would be holding the trophy saying that my time may come one day.

Still reeling from being on the wrong end of four 5 set matches in round 1, and Stan Wawrinka playing like he'd forgotten how good he is on day 1!

Go Bob!

T3nnisFan · Social player

Bob in Spain wrote:
So what is the difference between "points" and "ranking points" (right hand column) where I am shown with 683 points ?

So, points are given from 1 to 7, as Steven pointed out, for the given tournament's ranking purposes and taht in turn will determine how many ranking points you'll receive for your year-long ranking (like in the ATP). The far right points amassing to 683 for you are points given for that year-long ranking. Hope that makes sense.

I'll let Steven explain the formula for the ranking points :P If he wishes to, of course!

steven · Tennis legend

Bob in Spain wrote:
So what is the difference between "points" and "ranking points" (right hand column) where I am shown with 683 points ?

The "Total Pts" column will determine whether you win this competition.

Ranking points are used to determine year-round rankings and are based on points for position. You get 500 for 1st place down to 1 for last (something seems to have gone slightly wrong because I've just noticed it shows 3 at the moment) with points for the other positions evenly spread between 500 and 1, so the gaps are dependent on the number of entrants. You also get bonus points if you are ahead of the average score based on how far ahead of the average score you are.

Even I've been finding it a bit difficult to home in on the right column immediately. I think it is because the font is the same size/colour in all the columns but it is more than possible that everyone else found the old format (e.g. http://www.britishtennis.net/pickem/2013ao.htm?n=1) equally confusing or indeed equally clear, and I simply found it easier to home in on the right column because I had designed it in the first place! LOL

Other people may prefer the figures all to be the same size as they are in the new version because it means about 25% more entrants fit on each screen and additional columns of info can be fitted in ... and of course it may be that whatever system T3nnisfan is using allows some things to be better than they were before while constraining some other things. In any case, having designed the old format, I'm not the best person to comment on any differences.

I do think T3nnisfan has done a fantastic job of enabling there to such a comprehensive BOTB for Wimbledon and if he wants detailed comments on what people prefer or not, I'm sure he'll ask for them. I'm guessing he could probably do with a long rest after all this work though!

T3nnisFan · Social player

Bob in Spain wrote:
T3nnisFan wrote:
On that note:
@Bob in Spain, your immigration papers were rejected by IN while you were in between flights. You have 2 choices: re-apply for IN or take the next plane to BT. What say you?

But immigration is going to have to find me first as I am not in Spain right now. Rumour is that I may be hiding out in Moscow airport but I neither confirm nor deny that one
Next plane to BT will be fine thanks, as long as the natives don't object

I'm afraid I have bad news; BT has declared the closing of its borders to any outsider (citizen or otherwise) claiming "we are prosperous regardless of almost any outcome in the foreseeable future! bla bla bla we don't need any more members bla bla bla we will win it all bla bla bla..."

I'm afraid you've got no choice but to stay in IN (or Moscow or Spain... but just not BT) :P

T3nnisFan · Social player

steven wrote:
T3nnisFan wrote:
@steven, Mr Rusedski says he never heard of you. Can you believe that? He wanted you out of his bar but was promptly reminded by a regular BOTBer (getting drunk to forget the latest results) that he must have at least 5 members at all times, otherwise he risks losing his liquor permit.
I know, I was sitting 2 seats away from him on Monday ohn Court 19 on Monday and he didn't know me from Adam LOL
But oh Ferrer, that great H2H record against del Potro and you can't even beat him when he's got a dodgy knee the time I really needed you to. Where's the punishment box?

-- Edited by steven on Wednesday 3rd of July 2013 02:32:44 PM

Wait... who's Adam? And you're not serious about having been 2 seats away are you??? That would nuts! I've never been close to that kind of tennis greatness... that is, without getting pummeled by hoards of people! lol

T3nnisFan · Social player

steven wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:
So what is the difference between "points" and "ranking points" (right hand column) where I am shown with 683 points ?
The "Total Pts" column will determine whether you win this competition.
Ranking points are used to determine year-round rankings and are based on points for position. You get 500 for 1st place down to 1 for last (something seems to have gone slightly wrong because I've just noticed it shows 3 at the moment) with points for the other positions evenly spread between 500 and 1, so the gaps are dependent on the number of entrants. You also get bonus points if you are ahead of the average score based on how far ahead of the average score you are.
Even I've been finding it a bit difficult to home in on the right column immediately. I think it is because the font is the same size/colour in all the columns but it is more than possible that everyone else found the old format (e.g. http://www.britishtennis.net/pickem/2013ao.htm?n=1) equally confusing or indeed equally clear, and I simply found it easier to home in on the right column because I had designed it in the first place! LOL
Other people may prefer the figures all to be the same size as they are in the new version because it means about 25% more entrants fit on each screen and additional columns of info can be fitted in ... and of course it may be that whatever system T3nnisfan is using allows some things to be better than they were before while constraining some other things. In any case, having designed the old format, I'm not the best person to comment on any differences.
I do think T3nnisfan has done a fantastic job of enabling there to such a comprehensive BOTB for Wimbledon and if he wants detailed comments on what people prefer or not, I'm sure he'll ask for them. I'm guessing he could probably do with a long rest after all this work though!

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I changed the formula a *tiny* bit. The last value simply being 500/# of entrants = 500/156 ~ 3pts (rounded, of course) The new points were no more than 2 points off for each entrant from what you had. But, it's still a significant difference though (the total of all differences still was around 50). I couldn't quite match your previous values, which is why the change is there. I was running out of time so had to make a quick decision and I didn't know whether or not you'd be able to get back to me as well... :/ But, yea... did you round up or down or just use the simple round or trim or...?

I could make a style change np! I'm always willing to listen to what ppl have to say. Like Steven said, I made the stuff from scratch so I'm kind of blind to some of its faults. In fact, cazza99 from AM suggested some changes which I implemented. E.g.: He wanted the counter you always had on the entry form, Steven. I'd totally forgotten about that! So, I quickly put it in with I think a day left or so... Anyway, catering to those types of requests and trying to make sure everything's accurate and having to fix issues with the process & formulas and dealing with server-side issues, I must say I can definitely use a nice break after this but I feel that I've already recovered quite well given that we have matches only every 2 days now! Thank Wimbledon! lol It's been fun and I'm happy we got 156 entrants! Made it worth while imo :)

T3nnisFan · Social player

Okay so I ran through the scenarios and BT has like a 93% chance of winning! The only, I repeat, the ONLY scenario where you guys will finish 2nd is if it's a Del Potro vs. Murray final where Murray wins! As for individual results, I know the answer too but I like seeing you guys figure it out for yourselves! :P I know I'm cruel!

steven · Tennis legend

T3nnisFan wrote:
steven wrote:
T3nnisFan wrote:
@steven, Mr Rusedski says he never heard of you. Can you believe that? He wanted you out of his bar but was promptly reminded by a regular BOTBer (getting drunk to forget the latest results) that he must have at least 5 members at all times, otherwise he risks losing his liquor permit.
I know, I was sitting 2 seats away from him on Monday on Court 19 on Monday and he didn't know me from Adam LOL
But oh Ferrer, that great H2H record against del Potro and you can't even beat him when he's got a dodgy knee the time I really needed you to. Where's the punishment box?
Wait... who's Adam? And you're not serious about having been 2 seats away are you??? That would nuts! I've never been close to that kind of tennis greatness... that is, without getting pummeled by hoards of people! lol

LOL you get very used to walking past (etc) well-known people when you live in London ... and soon realise they're just people like the rest of us, though of course many (though by no means all) well known people are exceptionally good at what they do. It's only when they are in places they could be predicted to be in danger of being mobbed (or worse) in that they are surrounded, by fans and/or security.

Nobody really seemed to notice Greg was there (maybe there are too many current famous players around for the autograph hunters to bother) or maybe it's just that we Brits are good at giving people their space, or too polite / shy ... or whatever positive or negative connotation you want to put on it wink

Anyway, proof that he was 2 seats away - here's a pic I took of his feet for a "Whose rather large paws are these?" type quiz on Twitter. https://twitter.com/GBtennis/status/352101232090955777/photo/1

I had nicked the aisle seat so Greg used the seat in front to get some legroom (though I hasten to add that he did give it up when the court started filling up!) I thought it would be a difficult quiz question but Stu Fraser got it in about 5 seconds! LOL

Those who had met Greg before have all told me he is very easy-going and friendly, and while he was obviously in work mode that day, that was the impression I got too. He's a complete pro and I would say the GB juniors are lucky to have him in their corner, taking such an interest.

P.S. "He didn't know me from Adam" is a (British English-only, presumably) phrase meaning "He didn't have a clue who I was"

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Thanks for the explanations guys - absolutely as clear as mud !! But please don't waste any more time trying to explain it to a menial like me. I will stick to looking at the column on the left. The number 1 is just about within my level of comprehension. And I was going to save this for my "victory" speech, but in case I forget in all the excitement (or Xtreme11 pips me to the post) can I just state my thanks for all the effort gone into arranging this competition. It is clearly not something that was just "knocked up" in 5 mins and the effort has been greatly appreciated. Bob the Nomad !!

steven · Tennis legend

T3nnisFan wrote:
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I changed the formula a *tiny* bit. The last value simply being 500/# of entrants = 500/156 ~ 3pts (rounded, of course) The new points were no more than 2 points off for each entrant from what you had. But, it's still a significant difference though (the total of all differences still was around 50). I couldn't quite match your previous values, which is why the change is there. I was running out of time so had to make a quick decision and I didn't know whether or not you'd be able to get back to me as well... :/ But, yea... did you round up or down or just use the simple round or trim or...?

Re. the 500 to 1 or 500 to 500/n issue, there are good arguments either way. The reason I went for 1 is because it made it obvious on the ranking points table who had finished as the 'lanterne rouge' (i.e. last place) in past tournaments. Typical BOTB 'cruelty' wink

I worked them out as follows:

ADJPOS = finishing position + 0.5 * (no. of entrants finishing in that same position - 1)

So, for example, if 4 people finish 50th=, POS = 50 + 0.5 * (4-1) = 51.5

POSPTS = 1 + 499 * ((no. of entrants - ADJPOS) / (no. of entrants - 1)) ... rounded to the nearest integer (i.e. .49999 down, .50000 up)

BONPTS = (20 * (entrant's score as % of maximum possible score - average score as % of maximum possible score)) ... rounded to the nearest integer

TOTPTS = POSPTS + BONPTS