Week 25 - ATP 250 - Eastbourne, UK (grass)

paulisi · Tennis legend

RE: Week 25 - ATP 250 - Eastbourne, UK (grass)

Tennis36 · Masters Series Champion

I would guess he would be going for the two futures following that, seeing as he'll be playing junior wimby the week prior

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

paulisi wrote:
He's not entered at Manchester - wildcard?

Wimby Juniors that week - unless he makes the L16 in the Main Draw with the big boys wink

Maza1987 · Challenger level

Watched the match as live on Eurosport this evening.

My first time being able to watch Kyle on a high quality tv feed.

The thing I was most impressed by was his consistent strokeplay. You don't get nervous if he gets into a longish rally like you do with the majority of other British players.
His shots are also quite aesthetically pleasing which, while not a characteristic required for winning, is something I look for in my sports people.

The only shame is that the beeb did not show it. Would have been far better if they had shown this one instead of that atrocious Robson match. Awful to watch. Just awful compared to the fluidity of Kyle's shot play.

Tennis36 · Masters Series Champion

Will be very interesting to see what happens with Davis cup, it's clearly only a matter of time, would say ward is in possesion for te 2nd slot in September atm, but things could Definetly change from now till then

RJA · Hall of fame

denver23 wrote:
philwrig wrote:
Wow just comeback from watching the match live, happy to see that everybody on here was as impressed as I was. Last saw Kyle play live 12 months ago at the Newcastle futures tournament when Oli swept the board. 12 months later the improvement is staggering, the gasps from the crowd sitting alongside me after some of Kyle's shots said it all. I believe I bored everybody silly sitting along side me with the amount of running commentary I gave and background I gave on Kyle during the match.
Who said Clay was his best surface ?!
Beechy was so chuffed afterwards as well.
To be fair Simon was well below his best, and Kyle faded a little in the second when Simon's level also dropped, and it would be wrong to get carried away, but still WOW.
Phil - Did Simon have his ankle taped/strapped? I heard he had to be carried from the practice court the other day!

In all honesty Simon has been dire for most of the year. He has always been a player that I follow fairly closely and I enjoy watching him play (obviously I was rooting for Kyle today) and this year has been really tough for him. His game is in tatters and he has only maintained his ranking because he has dug out so many results through sheer grit and determination.

That takes nothing away from Kyle who was really, really good today.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Just as an aside because it ties in with some of the other threads about LTA policies, I've always had a special soft spot for Gilles Simon because it was thanks to him, pretty much single-handedly, that the old Technical Honcho of the FFT was fired and the whole training policy of the FFT changed.

Throughout the mid 2000 years, the head technical guy, (supported by the then President) implemented a policy of absolute elitism. Detection took part younger and younger (about age 6), training became more and more specialised, the cut-off age was brought down to 12 so that anyone who didn't make the grade by 12 was effectively out the system.

He was obsessed with the East Europeans and being like them (or what he perceived as being like them) - he wanted all kids to be ultra competitive, with each other as well as on court, 100% dedicated to nothing but tennis from the earliest age, only wanted 'big' kids and only wanted aggressive tennis - no sliced backhands were allowed to be taught, nor drop-shots, It really was bizarre.

The result was catastrophic for girls tennis - as Sarah Borwell rightly says, girls, in general, thrive far better on a team atmosphere, with mutual encouragement and support. Several of the high-ranking girls developed eating problems/issues and were kicked out. It was a nasty system and it's the reason there is a still a huge gap in French women's tennis players in their mid-20s.

The men fared a little better but no one came close to winning Roland Garros, which was their promise. And Gilles Simon, who was completely rejected as being too slight and playing a counter-puncher game that would supposedly go nowhere, proved to be a real thorn in their side by getting better and better. When the head guy was fired (and it takes a LOT for a French guy to be fired), Gilles was quoted as the proof that his system did not work.

It's now gone back to a far broader system (as it was before in fact) with players being supported far longer, with far more tiers, i.e. tons of layers of help from small (i.e. free extra coaching for a lot of county kids) to huge, depending on age and profile. And it's far more flexible.

So, thanks Gilles.

NB the president was convicted of financial misdemeanors about five years ago and also made to step down. (Yeah).

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Thursday 20th of June 2013 10:00:43 AM

Spectator · All-time great

Fascinating. I've always had a soft spot for M Simon on the grounds that he was a player who wasn't "supposed" to win but did ... but didn't realise how true that was! Really great having you on the board, CD, to give perspectives we wouldn't otherwise get.

Sarah Borwell seems to be such a sensible person. Fascinating that so far, I don't think anyone's mentioned a woman as candidate to lead the LTA. Or have they, and I missed it?

-- Edited by Spectator on Thursday 20th of June 2013 10:03:01 AM

korriban · Challenger level

It's absolutely true that Gilles Simon hasn't been playing at his best, although I think he took one of "the big 4" to 5 sets at Roland Garros (Federer I think), but he is always hard to beat unless certain players can overpower him.

Whilst it's true he had an ankle scare in training 2 days before the match, I think the biggest issue he had was clearly a major-league tummy upset.

The commentator talked about an abdominal muscle problem, but from his reactions on the court (absolutely fine, but then staring at the ground shaking his head, then doubled up, propped up by his racquet, then fine again) I think it's obvious what was going on. I mean, how many times have you seen a player being forced to take a toilet break at 5-5 (i.e. NOT a changeover) and rush off the court with the blessing of the umpire for 2 or 3 minutes. I think we've all been there at some point in our lives, and for Simon to play as well as he did when in this condition was pretty good in my view.

This takes nothing away from Kyle, who was superb! The good news was that there's lots and lots of improvements still to come, but the weapons are there, the maturity and (in general) tactical awareness is there, the calm under pressure is there, and he's a better athlete than Andy was at the same age (although I'm not sure he ultimately can be as good an athlete as Andy - who is quite a one-off). Here's hoping he draws a South Amercian clay courter at Wimbledon - Mr Pella that's you or one of your mates we're talking about.

Spectator · All-time great

I'm rather inclined to feel that Mr Pella may think he's done enough for British Tennis already this summer ... But I would be glad to see Mr Edmund draw someone who was terribly uncomfortable on grass.

RJA · Hall of fame

Obviously it would be nice for Kyle to draw someone who is allergic to grass but I am not really too bothered who he draws as long as it isn't a very top player. This year's Wimbledon is all about the experience, 45 points would be very nice but in the grand scheme of things not particularly important.

Ratty · County player

RJA wrote:
This year's Wimbledon is all about the experience, 45 points would be very nice but in the grand scheme of things not particularly important.

Er, couldn't you just as easily say that "the experience" is not particularly important in the grand scheme of things.

And hang on, what about the capricious and arbitrary £24,500 freebie? Very nice indeed - not far short of the average ANNUAL UK earnings, in return for, um, nothing. Surely we sophisticates on this board don't swallow the usual bull, that "the money isn't important". Like hell!

RJA · Hall of fame

Ratty wrote:
RJA wrote:
This year's Wimbledon is all about the experience, 45 points would be very nice but in the grand scheme of things not particularly important.
Er, couldn't you just as easily say that "the experience" is not particularly important in the grand scheme of things.
And hang on, what about the capricious and arbitrary £24,500 freebie? Very nice indeed - not far short of the average ANNUAL UK earnings, in return for, um, nothing. Surely we sophisticates on this board don't swallow the usual bull, that "the money isn't important". Like hell!

It is rare that I disagree with you but on this occasion I think you are completely wrong. The experience of playing at Wimbledon this year could be very beneficial, sure it ain't going to make his career but it should be pretty valuable. As for the money, yes it will be nice, but given that the LTA already pick up the bill for almost everything related to Kyle's tennis career it is not of great importance.

blob · All-time great

Ratty wrote:
RJA wrote:
This year's Wimbledon is all about the experience, 45 points would be very nice but in the grand scheme of things not particularly important.
Er, couldn't you just as easily say that "the experience" is not particularly important in the grand scheme of things.
And hang on, what about the capricious and arbitrary £24,500 freebie? Very nice indeed - not far short of the average ANNUAL UK earnings, in return for, um, nothing. Surely we sophisticates on this board don't swallow the usual bull, that "the money isn't important". Like hell!

Not really. The 45 points will drop off the rankings in a year. The experience of the occasion and the aid to acclimatisation in senior Grand Slam tennis will be with him and possibly stand him in good stead for the duration of his career.

The money isn't capricious, or arbitrary, in fact it's the very opposite. The prize fund is decided completely separate from any issue regarding Kyle, the amount is not arbitrary, it's very carefully negotiated and planned.

Furthermore, the decision to give Kyle the WC is hardly something that has been decided by a draw of lots or tossing a coin. It is the culmination of thoughtful consideration by a committee as to which player(s) should receive a WC - there is nothing arbitrary about it.

You can argue that the host nation should not be allowed to dispense so many wild cards to their own players. But that is a separate issue. Every nation that holds tournaments, at every level of the game, do the same and it has been so for most of the sports organised history. With that precedent in mind I fail to see how the host nation considering it's players and selecting what they think are the most deserving cases for a WC is in any way arbitrary. There is planning and thought throughout the entire process.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of the word 'capricious' - given to sudden and unaccountable changes of mood or behaviour - I'm not sure who you are suggesting has suddenly changed their behaviour or, perhaps, rules in this specific instance - it doesn't seem to apply.

The money is very nice for Kyle, but it may also just be a different stream from which to fund Kyle from within the system. It's not as though he were excluded from funding. He is actively funded already. This may just be a simple way of rebalancing funding or supplementing it to an amount which he was liable to receive through other channels anyway. As Kyle is already funded, the money is not as pressing an issue for him as for some other pro's . Sure, this lump sum immediately is certainly not unwelcome, but, being sufficiently comfortable in his funding already, RJA is probably right, it is not 'important', or, at least, not as important as it would be to someone like Mr. Fitzpatrick, for example.

The money is not "for nothing". The WC is decided beyond his control, and in accordance with general practice in the game as outlined above.

Perhaps one could argue that all WC are immoral and should be done away with, as, all WC effectively get in to an event and some monetary reward for "nothing", ostensibly". There is a potential case to be made there, not a terribly compelling one, but certainly something to it. However, it is really another argument altogether, and as you did not hint at that wider context, I doubt seriously that was what you intended.

Kyle will play at least one match for the money, and will receive the same compensation as everyone else at the tournament that does the same. What is wrong with that?

Ratty · County player

Oh, I don't know, only me and Denver23 don't like the principle of wild cards, and one thing which life has taught me is that nobody on an Internet message board ever changed anyone else's mind.

(It's rather noble that you both seem to assume that the "unimportant" cash will be, er, "reinvested". I somehow doubt it - a nice set of wheels would be my guess. Or maybe I'm just appallingly cynical, perhaps it will be repaid to the LTA ...)